Dissidents Philosophy Forum

Internet Philosophical Community
 
HomeCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
The Fool
Administrator
avatar

Male
Number of posts : 368
Age : 30
Location : United States Midwest
Registration date : 2008-12-12

PostSubject: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:39 am

Welcome to our academical school for ripe fresh young minds.

Let me give you a guided tour.

It is within these well paved halls that whole new generations of young people are fed like fodder amongst a well lit flame where either they will adapt or assimilate as students in what we would have them soak up and should they not we will throw them into shackles of servitude for the rest of their adult life.

It is here through our academical institutions every year where we seperate the chosen from the impure and rebellious to become leaders all throughout the land and yet it is also here that we replenish the servant class for those who can not follow determined standards or the status quo of our choosing for we serve that purpose too.

Every year it is harvest time in that we seperate the grain from the chaff and where we as educators are the harvesters for the government monopoly.

Yes education is the means of segregating and dividing the chosen from the untouchable impure class of people with our tests, classes,indocrination, propaganda, and publicly held doctrine of fanatical perceivement.

It is here where we threaten their existential future for non-compliance striking fear through their very hearts.

It is here that a human being is described value and worth in society and it is here where we can also take it away.

Imagine what power we have over young hearts constantly having our hand on the button that can ruin their entire existential future into damnation.

It is here where we drain or sap their energy of natural instinctual youth and put it towards the means of supporting the machine that is civilization with flesh amongst metal which we call higher cult-ure.

Here we divide and segregate the chosen citizens amongst the lowly impure servant class but if anybody should ask what our mission is publicly well just be pretensious and say that we are here to nurture young minds academically on a equal scale for all people.

In reality we care not of equality for their is nothing equal of our operations here.

We count on inequality being the sort of conflict which advances human knowledge and potential.

Truly academical and educational institutions are remarkable in that we are the prime center of dividing and segregating the populance yet people are gullible enough to believe today that education is built upon equal means for everyone.

What fools!

Let it be known that all education is seperating the grain from the chaff or the pure from the impure.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://dissidentsphilosophy.alldiscussion.net
Ivan
Active Idealist
Active Idealist
avatar

Number of posts : 96
Registration date : 2009-01-07

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:39 am

You may find John Taylor Gatto interesting if you've not had a look at him yet. His theme is similar to what you describe above.

The Underground History of American Education, is in full; and nicely organized for easy online reading.

The Six-Lesson School Teacher, it's a sort of short synopsis of his thinking, as is The Seven-Lesson School Teacher

""The first lesson I teach is: "Stay in the class where you belong."
"The second lesson I teach kids is to turn on and off like a light switch."
"The third lesson I teach you is to surrender your will to a predestined chain of command."
"The fourth lesson I teach is that only I determine what curriculum you will study."
"In lesson five I teach that your self-respect should depend on an observer's measure of your worth."
"In lesson six I teach children that they are being watched."
"The seventh lesson I teach is that you can't hide.""


Here is Dumbing Us Down, and Against School is not bad too.

This is an interview for a series on anarchist educators, J. T. Gatto interviewed by Lennart Mogren, Sweden, March 2003.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
The Fool
Administrator
avatar

Male
Number of posts : 368
Age : 30
Location : United States Midwest
Registration date : 2008-12-12

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:10 am

Ivan wrote:
You may find John Taylor Gatto interesting if you've not had a look at him yet. His theme is similar to what you describe above.

The Underground History of American Education, is in full; and nicely organized for easy online reading.

The Six-Lesson School Teacher, it's a sort of short synopsis of his thinking, as is The Seven-Lesson School Teacher

""The first lesson I teach is: "Stay in the class where you belong."
"The second lesson I teach kids is to turn on and off like a light switch."
"The third lesson I teach you is to surrender your will to a predestined chain of command."
"The fourth lesson I teach is that only I determine what curriculum you will study."
"In lesson five I teach that your self-respect should depend on an observer's measure of your worth."
"In lesson six I teach children that they are being watched."
"The seventh lesson I teach is that you can't hide.""


Here is Dumbing Us Down, and Against School is not bad too.

This is an interview for a series on anarchist educators, J. T. Gatto interviewed by Lennart Mogren, Sweden, March 2003.


Awsome. Smile ( I like.)

I'll definately give those links a read.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://dissidentsphilosophy.alldiscussion.net
Ivan
Active Idealist
Active Idealist
avatar

Number of posts : 96
Registration date : 2009-01-07

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:56 am

Here is the man,

Two watches?

This is his resignation letter, published in the The Wall Street Journal on the occasion of his winning New York State Teacher of the Year,

Government schooling is the most radical adventure in history. It kills the family by monopolizing the best times of childhood and by teaching disrespect for home and parents. The whole blueprint of school procedure is Egyptian, not Greek or Roman. It grows from the theological idea that human value is a scarce thing, represented symbolically by the narrow peak of a pyramid.

That idea passed into American history through the Puritans. It found its "scientific" presentation in the bell curve, along which talent supposedly apportions itself by some Iron Law of Biology. It’s a religious notion, School is its church. I offer rituals to keep heresy at bay. I provide documentation to justify the heavenly pyramid.

Socrates foresaw if teaching became a formal profession, something like this would happen. Professional interest is served by making what is easy to do seem hard; by subordinating the laity to the priesthood. School is too vital a jobs-project, contract giver and protector of the social order to allow itself to be "re-formed." It has political allies to guard its marches, that’s why reforms come and go without changing much. Even reformers can’t imagine school much different.

David learns to read at age four; Rachel, at age nine: In normal development, when both are 13, you can’t tell which one learned first—the five-year spread means nothing at all. But in school I label Rachel "learning disabled" and slow David down a bit, too. For a paycheck, I adjust David to depend on me to tell him when to go and stop. He won’t outgrow that dependency. I identify Rachel as discount merchandise, "special education" fodder. She’ll be locked in her place forever.

In 30 years of teaching kids rich and poor I almost never met a learning disabled child; hardly ever met a gifted and talented one either. Like all school categories, these are sacred myths, created by human imagination. They derive from questionable values we never examine because they preserve the temple of schooling.

That’s the secret behind short-answer tests, bells, uniform time blocks, age grading, standardization, and all the rest of the school religion punishing our nation. There isn’t a right way to become educated; there are as many ways as fingerprints. We don’t need state-certified teachers to make education happen—that probably guarantees it won’t.

How much more evidence is necessary? Good schools don’t need more money or a longer year; they need real free-market choices, variety that speaks to every need and runs risks. We don’t need a national curriculum or national testing either. Both initiatives arise from ignorance of how people learn or deliberate indifference to it. I can’t teach this way any longer. If you hear of a job where I don’t have to hurt kids to make a living, let me know. Come fall I’ll be looking for work.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
The Fool
Administrator
avatar

Male
Number of posts : 368
Age : 30
Location : United States Midwest
Registration date : 2008-12-12

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:09 pm

I think this guy is going to be unemployed for a very long time. Laughing
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://dissidentsphilosophy.alldiscussion.net
creasy
Active Idealist
Active Idealist


Number of posts : 75
Registration date : 2008-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:46 pm

I like Ivan's emphasis on the real, non-educational 'training' that schools are really about, though the Fool's class based criticism is also important.

Schools are there to socialize children and train them how not to learn, how not to trust their own minds, how not to follow their own interests, how to not act like free citizens by followers of authority....

they also teach children to think that learning is not doing and is best done separately from society.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
kriswest
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Number of posts : 264
Registration date : 2008-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:58 am

Schools can only do this if parents do not parent. If parents actually involve themselves in their children's lives then the child benifits from schools and family. the school system is designed to be part of a team not, to be the only influence or educator of the child, the family is supposed to be involved. The average kid now recieves a very lopsided education, they are supposed to be educated in school and at home, not just school. the failure resides on the families, not the school systems.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
creasy
Active Idealist
Active Idealist


Number of posts : 75
Registration date : 2008-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:40 pm

kriswest wrote:
Schools can only do this if parents do not parent. If parents actually involve themselves in their children's lives then the child benifits from schools and family. the school system is designed to be part of a team not, to be the only influence or educator of the child, the family is supposed to be involved. The average kid now recieves a very lopsided education, they are supposed to be educated in school and at home, not just school. the failure resides on the families, not the school systems.
I think you are missing Ivan's point which is that the education in school is not primarily focused on learning skills and facts to be used in adult life, but rather training in how to be part of a neo-fascist society and how not to make waves in it. It trains children to get used to systematic disrespect and a lack of freedom.

Parents can of course try to counter this, but it would not then be in a partner role with the schools.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
kriswest
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Number of posts : 264
Registration date : 2008-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:18 am

I did not miss the point. The schools can only change if the parents involve themselves in the lives of the children. What the system is is not what it is supposed to be, there is not the partnership working. Parents can change curiculums, change the rules in the schools and change the atmosphere if they so desire. To do this they must actually attend PTA meetings , pay attention to the kid's school assignments , talk with the kid and the teachers.
You can't have a marriage if one person is always missing. Schools right now can only take kids and create robots, because they have no time to develop each child. That must be the parent's job. Too many kids, not enough time nor input from the other partner causes systematic breakdown.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ivan
Active Idealist
Active Idealist
avatar

Number of posts : 96
Registration date : 2009-01-07

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:48 pm

Obama wrote:
I did not miss the point.

...curiculums...
...schools...
...PTA meetings...

Parents can change curiculums, change the rules in the schools and change the atmosphere if they so desire. To do this they must actually attend PTA meetings...
Are you sure? "Change?"

"Nazis can change death-camp protocol, change the regulations in the camps and change the atmosphere if they so desire. To do this they must actually attend NSDAP meetings...."
Back to top Go down
View user profile
kriswest
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Number of posts : 264
Registration date : 2008-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:03 am

Well, if you want Nazism to change then you do have to attend meetings and let your voice be heard. Nothing can occur unless you step up to the plate and take that risk.
the same for school systems,,, I guarantee the families out number the employees of the school districts.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
The Fool
Administrator
avatar

Male
Number of posts : 368
Age : 30
Location : United States Midwest
Registration date : 2008-12-12

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:02 am

Quote :
Creasy says:

Schools are there to socialize children and train them how not to learn, how not to trust their own minds, how not to follow their own interests, how to not act like free citizens by followers of authority....

they also teach children to think that learning is not doing and is best done separately from society.

Quote :
but rather training in how to be part of a neo-fascist society and how not to make waves in it. It trains children to get used to systematic disrespect and a lack of freedom.

Parents can of course try to counter this, but it would not then be in a partner role with the schools.

Pretty much. Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://dissidentsphilosophy.alldiscussion.net
Ivan
Active Idealist
Active Idealist
avatar

Number of posts : 96
Registration date : 2009-01-07

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:00 am

kriswest wrote:
Well, if you want Nazism to change then you do have to attend meetings and let your voice be heard. Nothing can occur unless you step up to the plate and take that risk.
the same for school systems,,, I guarantee the families out number the employees of the school districts.
Sorry, I'm still not being clear. You know MagnetMan's take on this thread right, I mean roughly speaking. Get away from the schools period. It isn't about "change," mitigating or moderating.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
kriswest
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Number of posts : 264
Registration date : 2008-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:54 am

Yes i do know, and that would be a poor thing for society to remove public schools.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ivan
Active Idealist
Active Idealist
avatar

Number of posts : 96
Registration date : 2009-01-07

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:25 am

kriswest wrote:
Yes i do know, and that would be a poor thing for society to remove public schools.
In the movement from dead matter to absolute free life, that would be a bad direction to choose kris.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
kriswest
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Number of posts : 264
Registration date : 2008-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:55 am

There can be no absolute free life. To remove public schools will commit society to a massive state of ignorance, illiteracy, crime and death. Worse than it is now. Parents cannot accept responsibility for their own actions or inactions folks actually believe they would accept responsibility for the education of their kids??
Back to top Go down
View user profile
creasy
Active Idealist
Active Idealist


Number of posts : 75
Registration date : 2008-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:29 pm

kriswest wrote:
I did not miss the point. The schools can only change if the parents involve themselves in the lives of the children. What the system is is not what it is supposed to be, there is not the partnership working. Parents can change curiculums, change the rules in the schools and change the atmosphere if they so desire. To do this they must actually attend PTA meetings , pay attention to the kid's school assignments , talk with the kid and the teachers.
You can't have a marriage if one person is always missing. Schools right now can only take kids and create robots, because they have no time to develop each child. That must be the parent's job. Too many kids, not enough time nor input from the other partner causes systematic breakdown.
Parents are already brainwashed and share much of the ideals that schools do. They have been trained in certain ways, think these ways are normal and do not disagree with them. They are partnered with schools, already, if only passively. If they were active the core problems Ivan is pointing out would not change.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ivan
Active Idealist
Active Idealist
avatar

Number of posts : 96
Registration date : 2009-01-07

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:24 am

(Not that prisons are okay, but) someone might get, what, 10 years in prison for murder? Yet kids get 13 in the developed world!

kris wrote:
To remove public schools will commit society to a massive state of ignorance, illiteracy, crime and death.
And that would be different from now?

Or,

And that would be worse?

No one else is going to come out against literacy; you are not going to see any sappy TV commercials asking you to donate to an anti-literacy campaign in Africa.

Liiteracy is a disease; have you ever heard of an illness of the mind called dyslexia? It is directly caused by reading and writing.

There is a tribe in Africa who buried a pen, symbolicly. Literacy never brought anything but wickedness to their community; schools took the children, young people were called up for draft in the Second World War. Now free of the pen, boys tend the cows during the days, they don't sweat in classrooms or die at El Alamein; and a great peace has come over their land.

Reading is a social bad-habit; like smoking, drinking, and other stable vices such as masterbation. Literacy is a sort of computer-virus; it infects more and more users,

"About 1 in 10 children has dyslexia."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_1740000/newsid_1747100/1747150.stm

Millions suffer from this literacy related neurological disability, 2.9 million in the United States alone.


Last edited by Ivan on Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:52 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
kriswest
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Number of posts : 264
Registration date : 2008-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:29 am

Oh yea,,,,, I recall it.. Ok given that still,, what do you really think will happen when you turn loose a million kids with nothing to do on a city? Do you honestly think parents will be responsible? Things are bad enough now, to remove such a major infrastructure would create havoc and destruction which would make these times look damn good by comparision.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
creasy
Active Idealist
Active Idealist


Number of posts : 75
Registration date : 2008-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:19 pm

You could shift over a more apprentice based system. You could question whether the current structure educates people to be free or to be cogs. You could take small steps towards the removal of the current system. The answer does not have to be: tomorrow we close all the schools.

First people notice that schools are not primarily about teaching people to be intelligent members of a democracy. And NOT because they are disorganized or teachers are not skilled BUT RATHER because the schools are effective and are designed to make people passive consumers who do not question authority and do not have the skills or inclination to do this.

If by some miracle you get some consensus on this (IOW people notice that they are training their children to be mind dead purchasers and wage slaves, THEN you can figure out a good alternative and move towards it causing as little pain and chaos as possible.

REmember we have built up society around certain assumptions, like the idea that education is here and life is over there. It certainly would take some reorganization to change that and not just of schools. But hell the South learned to have an economy without slaves and I am quite sure that looked like it would be chaos - 'what happens if we just let these millions of slaves go tomorrow?'.

The thing is, it had to be done. And so does this.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ivan
Active Idealist
Active Idealist
avatar

Number of posts : 96
Registration date : 2009-01-07

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:06 am

kriswest wrote:
kids
city
parents
responsible
bad
infrastructure
These all need to go, so the consequence on one of the destruction of another is not an issue.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
kriswest
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Number of posts : 264
Registration date : 2008-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:38 am

Creasy has the right of it. Given time in increments structure can be used to change. The above that you mention Ivan cannot go unless you force people into small town living. And Since the human is a social animal that runs in herds that always want more territory, I do not see that small towns will last, Humans war for territory, You would have to breed only pacifist humans.... if that happens I do hope I am dead. A pacified human is just as poisonous as a barbaric human.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ivan
Active Idealist
Active Idealist
avatar

Number of posts : 96
Registration date : 2009-01-07

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:19 am

kriswest wrote:
Creasy has the right of it. Given time in increments structure can be used to change. The above that you mention Ivan cannot go unless you force people into small town living.
This is what Popper was saying fifty years ago: be moderate. It is now clear he was wrong. Pol Pot was right.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
creasy
Active Idealist
Active Idealist


Number of posts : 75
Registration date : 2008-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:44 pm

Ivan wrote:
kriswest wrote:
Creasy has the right of it. Given time in increments structure can be used to change. The above that you mention Ivan cannot go unless you force people into small town living.
This is what Popper was saying fifty years ago: be moderate. It is now clear he was wrong. Pol Pot was right.
If Pol Pot was right he must have wanted his country to slowly move towards capitalism. To have a corrupt MONARCHY in place. And to have his own, Pol Pot's that is, coworkers put on trial. This is how effective Pol Pot was with his violent, rapid communist approach. He is no doubt rolling over in his lack of an afterlife.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ivan
Active Idealist
Active Idealist
avatar

Number of posts : 96
Registration date : 2009-01-07

PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:15 am

creasy wrote:
Ivan wrote:
kriswest wrote:
Creasy has the right of it. Given time in increments structure can be used to change. The above that you mention Ivan cannot go unless you force people into small town living.
This is what Popper was saying fifty years ago: be moderate. It is now clear he was wrong. Pol Pot was right.
If Pol Pot was right....
The main idea of Pol Pot was to get out the foreign and reactionary element for good. The colonists fled and few were caught, but the native bourgeoise didn't; and were destroyed, because history has shown that playing politics with the metropole and the bourgeoise is useless. Pol Pot never wanted Sihanouk, then or after; he never wanted capitalism then or after. "Co-workers" were tried and it was "violent" because the whole thing was so high risk, everyone wanted to back-down from it, no doubt Pol Pot had misgivings himself (as he later says). I would defend the KR and Pol Pot if you'd like to dispute it. Was Pol Pot a communist? The goal was to build a new, fresh society, without foreign influence (either from abroad or from within); obviously communist tactics and ideology were used, where it would have gone is hard to say; despite American backing, the Vietnamese won in Cambodia too.

From early on, and after the Vietnamese occupation, even the KR mitigated too quickly.

Education: the KR were not the first to put children and people of the extreme-country-side into positions of high power. Young people can act maturely. Pol pot needed the uneducation because their minds were not diseased; de-education is a very difficult process as you know.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.   

Back to top Go down
 
Segregation Society. The means of enforced inequality and prejudice within the education system.
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» What does number 15 means
» Any thoughts on what a bed head means?
» Ten years on the invasion of Iraq: a fragmented society is preparing for the return of civil war
» wondering what this dream means
» The role of the peasant in Medieval society.

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Dissidents Philosophy Forum :: Sociology-
Jump to: