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Satyr
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PostSubject: Religion is a joke...   Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:43 pm

...played upon fools.

Joke 1

Joke 2
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:51 am

First one was funny. Second was disturbing

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/969144/what_if_god_has_a_myspace_account/
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:42 am

Satyr wrote:
...played upon fools.

Interesting thread
this could take us somewhere

I am a fool
prepared to duel
but we need some basic rules

Define religion

How did it start?
Where is it going?
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:07 am

Quote :
re⋅li⋅gion
   /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9. get religion, Informal.
a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.

I would add:
Religion as an institution.
A systemic power enforcing a strict code of conduct and belief and providing limitations for both, in collusion with State in providing a framework of mass control.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:04 am

Humans appear bound to worship.....

Humans create gods.
Early deities symbolised the cycles of life which appeared indifferent both to suffering and to the absence of suffering.
But worshipping life; as symbolised by animals, planetary bodies, the seasons and fertility itself did nothing to affect change. There was still suffering!
Humans thought some more about their gods and goddesses. Symbolically they become more humanistic in appearance and began to represent behavioural ideals that humans aspired, but could not live 'up' to; they being animals and therefore subject to 'beastly' tendencies.
Humans thought some more about gods and humans.
Perhaps suffering was humanity's own fault? Nothing to do with gods at all? Self eradication might then be the answer. And many would find this route to end suffering a logical one. The eradication of self. Of perception.
Either way gods become unwieldy. Perhaps too much choice confuses humans. Regardless, multiple deities have done nothing to change things for humanity. Civilisations rise and fall. They are still subject to nature which man must conquer in order to rise above it.
So the gods become god. Perhaps that would finally 'work'.
One god above all things but man created in the image of god. Truly a match made in heaven!
Man is now above all things on earth; but conveniently still some way below god. Man, still can only aspire to but never reach. Beautiful.
Of course god is only fully accessible after a long, productive and rigidly controlled life. Control being asserted by self appointed 'intermediaries' who 'speak' on god's behalf and even write down what god has 'instructed' for HIS followers.
God becomes more and more like the intermediaries. Who created whole texts with which to guide the followers.
But against the will and effort of the intermediaries the followers began to read. They noted the contradictions in the texts and thus in the intermediaries. And they began to question.
Yet the path to god is very seductive. Life after death or another kind of life; all free of man's beastliness.
God does so like his subjects to confess, cleanse, wash or burn away their beastliness. That which we have done and said and thought. There goes our humanity rinsing down the drain; or up in smoke....
But then if there is no cleansing god; nothing to promise the ease to our suffering....

A replacement is required; another system or systems of control modelled on all that came before.
Requiring obedience and a good, long, productive life in exchange for a few moments of comfort; just enough to keep them buying into it?
Quid Pro Quo.


MS Thu 22nd Jan 2009 1.46pm feminization of man thread p4

No takers, then.......
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:19 am

oh god this is brilliant:

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/coyne09/coyne09_index.html#rc

An extract here but I urge you to read the whole piece and the debate as a whole:

Quote :
Sam Harris

And yet, there is more to be said against the likes of Coyne and Dennett and Dawkins (he is the worst!). Patrick Bateson tells us that it is "staggeringly insensitive" to undermine the religious beliefs of people who find these beliefs consoling. I agree completely. For instance: it is now becoming a common practice in Afghanistan and Pakistan to blind and disfigure little girls with acid for the crime of going to school. When I was a neo-fundamentalist rational neo-atheist I used to criticize such behavior as an especially shameful sign of religious stupidity. I now realize—belatedly and to my great chagrin—that I knew nothing of the pain that a pious Muslim man might feel at the sight of young women learning to read. Who am I to criticize the public expression of his faith? Bateson is right. Clearly a belief in the inerrancy of the holy Qur'an is indispensable for these beleaguered people.

How can a militant secularist atheist neo-dogmatist like Coyne not see the plain truth? There simply IS no conflict between religion and science. And even if there were one, it would be an utter waste of time to say anything about it. Lawrence Krauss has established this second point beyond any possibility of doubt. Go back and read his essay. It'll just take you five seconds. I've read it upwards of seventy times, and each perusal brings fresh insight.


See. How dangerous the prospect of educated women is? That girls should be blinded just for going to school.

Ah, poor things, they can't help themselves. Those men. Their pasts have made them that way. All too reasonable.

They should just relax knowing that even when educated women cannot pose any kind of threat to a reasonable man.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:40 pm

Satyr wrote:

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Okay. the above definition of religion is plenty good enough for me.
Lets work off that

Quote :
I would add:
Religion as an institution.
Agreed

Quote :
A systemic power enforcing a strict code of conduct and belief and providing limitations for both, in collusion with State in providing a framework of mass control.
Agreed

Now next questions

What circumstances first brought on the idea of inventing scripture?
If religion was indeed a foolish idea
Explain why it took root in the mass consciousness
and eventually rose to supreme power
powerful enough to become immune from moral laws
and sacrifice millions of people?
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:22 am

The most populous organisms on earth are parasitical. As are the most successful. Not that the two are the same but I expect you'll get my drift.

Hey, man, if you spread me around, provide willing hosts I'll help you rule the world. Deal?
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:32 am

maryshelley wrote:
The most populous organisms on earth are parasitical. As are the most successful. Not that the two are the same but I expect you'll get my drift.

Hey, man, if you spread me around, provide willing hosts I'll help you rule the world. Deal?

Mary
you have numerous threads where you and satyr engage in mutual [and infinite] pseudo-intellectual maturbation,
so far I am singularly unimpressed
and have no wish to join in your crap shoots

On this matter
try and answer the question this time
religion and philosophy
are not teenage mental duels
for me
where the carnage is left unmentioned
if you find that too stuffy
then stuff it in a pipe
and smoke it

I will accept a witty reply
but if it too flippant
our conversation is over

I am an old man with not long to live
and losing patience


Last edited by MagnetMan on Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:41 am

MagnetMan wrote:

Now next questions
Good.

After this comment, imbecile, I'm gonna cum all over your face.
Quote :
Mary
you have numerous threads where you and satyr engage in mutual [and infinite] pseudo-intellectual maturbation,
try and answer the question this time
This from a retard claiming levitation is possible.

Quote :
What circumstances first brought on the idea of inventing scripture?
Is this question difficult for you?

Easy answer;
Necessity.

The form a religion takes, exposes the needs that it meets in the ones using it.

Quote :
If religion was indeed a foolish idea
Explain why it took root in the mass consciousness
and eventually rose to supreme power
powerful enough to become immune from moral laws
and sacrifice millions of people?
Again, easy:

Human feebleness.
Existential anxiety, coupled with ignorance and guided by stupidity.

Millions of religions, each trying to relieve man from the anxiety he feels towards the unknown.

When fire was not comprehended and feared, spirits were beleived to be producing it.

Wherever human faces the limits of his own awareness and knowledge, he constructs a god to alleviate the stress and enable him the illusion that he can Appease these mysterious forces with sacrifices, submission and/or prayer.

Religion has also been sued to manipulate and cotnrol the masses of obtuse, idiots who need to be guided and disciplined to systemic authority.
A way of controlling the herd.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:13 am

Satyr wrote:


After this comment, imbecile, I'm gonna cum all over your face.
I'd be surprised if you produce enough testosterone to accomplish that feat.
I am six feet tall.

Quote :
What circumstances first brought on the idea of inventing scripture?

Quote :
Is this question difficult for you?
Easy answer;
Necessity.

Wow! Profound!
Just as I suspected
a suave cynical armchair buff
without a practical bone in his body
you are dueling with a miner's son here. buddy
I use heavy hammers on dolts
there is no other way to knock sense into their thick sculls
I reserve my rapier thrusts
for gentlemen
who keep their dicks private

Quote :
The form a religion takes, exposes the needs that it meets in the ones using it.
Its the other way round.
Inventing script was the answer to a growing existential problem
not the cause of it.

Quote :
I[i]f religion was indeed a foolish idea
Explain why it took root in the mass consciousness
and eventually rose to supreme power
powerful enough to become immune from moral laws
and sacrifice millions of people
?

Quote :
Again, easy:
Human feebleness.
Existential anxiety, coupled with ignorance and guided by stupidity.

You would not say that about science.
Before the Bronze Age intellect could develop to that abstract level
it needed basic training in craftsmanship and conscientious guidance
Iron Age religions served that purpose.

I know
I am dropping pearls before swine
casting precious seeds
on infertile soil


Quote :
Millions of religions, each trying to relieve man from the anxiety he feels towards the unknown.
Five classical theological encouragements
that have stayed the course
for 6000 years

Quote :
When fire was not comprehended and feared, spirits were beleived to be producing it.
Even today
around the campfire
I see them dancing frenetically
in the flames
and am enthralled

Quote :
Wherever human faces the limits of his own awareness and knowledge, he constructs a god to alleviate the stress and enable him the illusion that he can Appease these mysterious forces with sacrifices, submission and/or prayer.
Finally!
some sense!
Well said

Quote :
Religion has also been sued to manipulate and cotnrol the masses of obtuse, idiots who need to be guided and disciplined to systemic authority. A way of controlling the herd
I would not be so harsh
those idiots were our ancestors
who passed down their genes
some of which
of course
where idiots
begetting more idiots
.[/quote]
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:40 am

MagnetMan wrote:
Quote :
The form a religion takes, exposes the needs that it meets in the ones using it.
Its the other way round.
Inventing script was the answer to a growing existential problem
not the cause of it.
Brilliant observation MM, definitely-true, Will precedes Word.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:45 am

Isn't that exactly what Satyr said?
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:53 am

Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
Isn't that exactly what Satyr said?
He was implying exactly the opposite
Religion as weakness
not strength
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:56 am

Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
Isn't that exactly what Satyr said?
No, Satyr signified the opposite, which is that the Religoso withholds no inherent truth-claims.

But MM is slowly-exposing this for what it is, a fabrication.

If Satyr admits that God is a concept, then he is fucked.


EDIT: MM beat me to it.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:01 am

MagnetMan wrote:
maryshelley wrote:
The most populous organisms on earth are parasitical. As are the most successful. Not that the two are the same but I expect you'll get my drift.

Hey, man, if you spread me around, provide willing hosts I'll help you rule the world. Deal?

Mary
you have numerous threads where you and satyr engage in mutual [and infinite] pseudo-intellectual maturbation,
so far I am singularly unimpressed
and have no wish to join in your crap shoots

On this matter
try and answer the question this time
religion and philosophy
are not teenage mental duels
for me
where the carnage is left unmentioned
if you find that too stuffy
then stuff it in a pipe
and smoke it

I will accept a witty reply
but if it too flippant
our conversation is over

I am an old man with not long to live
and losing patience

You will accept...? Good of you, man.

My reply was not a flippant one. It was deadly serious.
I am an old lady with no patience and not enough time left to live as I please. Pseudo-intellectual masturbation with satyr suits me. Don't know how satyr feels about it but who cares. I defy logic, apparently, anyway.

Religion, that deadly force. Or faith as others so euphamistically call it. Is the ultimate symbol of patriarchy as are all things man-made. Well there's < the feminist view if you are interested in all that. Marx, I assume, would have an explanation a semblance of which is also offered in a post of mine above ^^^ somewhere. Duh capitol!

Tell me. What persuaded your wife, if she is such and there is only one, to spend six years of her life pregnant? You or your religion? Or was it her sex? Or doing what she was supposed to do, by nature?

Sorry. I digress. Back to religion.
I believe (heck am I even allowed to say that aloud?). Humans created religion because they needed something to make sense of things around them that they didn't (couldn't yet) understand. It became 'ingrained' long before there was enough reason in the world to fully explain the descent of man and his environment (because man defines all things according to himself) and so it took root. It evolved with man as humans spread across the continents from 'Africa' as it has become known. Hence, the many different religions. All competing for supremacy, it seems. Ah evolution...!

How did the concept of religion spread?

Some say memes (little packets of culture) did the spreading; others that there may be a god gene with something else activating it's expression; or even a god centre in the brain; others said women did the spreading as they love to mimic and are so reflective. Certainly appears parasitical, in the way it constantly infects new hosts. I don't yet know the mechanism but I will think on it a while longer.

The simple explanation: god did it. Or an alien (god is that you!?), maybe. For me, though, it's a stretch.

Or something so far beyond my compreshesion that it won't bear thinking about.

simple <> complex are we there yet daddy?

Tell me. What do you think?
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:05 am

Unreasonable wrote:
Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
Isn't that exactly what Satyr said?
No, Satyr signified the opposite, which is that the Religoso withholds no inherent truth-claims.

But MM is slowly-exposing this for what it is, a fabrication.

If Satyr admits that God is a concept, then he is fucked.


EDIT: MM beat me to it.

MagnetMan wrote:
Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
Isn't that exactly what Satyr said?
He was implying exactly the opposite
Religion as weakness
not strength

Both those answers are tangential.

"Inventing script was the answer to a growing existential problem" said Magnetman

"growing existential problem" = "need", "Inventing script" = "Form of a religion".

I.e. the script that is invented reveals the need or answers the existential problem, which is exactly what Magnetman said.

It's quite simple.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:12 am

Oh I forgot. Why religion?

Because (sometimes) it makes people feel good about themselves. Sometimes it makes people do good things. BUT

It makes my army go to war with your army (why would they otherwise?). God is on our side! We are good. YOU are evil.

It takes the burden of decision making away from us infallible humans. God made me do it so it must be right!

Come on let's understand it. Put it in context.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:12 am

Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
It's quite simple.
Then take a gander at the words you are typing there genius ... script ... religion.

Now, connect-the-dots.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:18 am

___ script ___ religion

Done.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:21 am

Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
___ script ___ religion

Done.
Well done! cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:24 am

In any case, I realise that I am mashing up the two points a bit since Satyr was talking about the use of a pre-existing religion, the bending of it to one's needs, but I still think the point translates directly into the larger sphere of the creation of a religion too.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:31 am

maryshelley wrote:

Religion, that deadly force. Or faith as others so euphamistically call it. Is the ultimate symbol of patriarchy as are all things man-made. Well there's < the feminist view if you are interested in all that.

2.5 million years ago, enough neurons made enough connections between the analytical and intuitive hemispheres of the evolving hominid brain for a dim sense of separation to emerge. A self-recflective consciousness was born. An ape-man became a hu-man.
For the next 99,000 generations, MA, the feminine principle, Mother IRTH, was Goddess.
PA has since ruled for a mere 1000 generations
and you are bitching already?

Quote :
Marx, I assume, would have an explanation a semblance of which is also offered in a post of mine above ^^^ somewhere. Duh capitol!
Marx was a short-sighted idiot
just like Nietzsche and Schopenhauer
too much sourkraut
I suspect.

Quote :
Tell me. What persuaded your wife, if she is such and there is only one, to spend six years of her life pregnant? You or your religion? Or was it her sex? Or doing what she was supposed to do, by nature?
Men find their manhood on the battlefield when they risk death
Maidens find their women hood in the birth moment when they risk death
Some women endure the pain and risk death more than a dozen times.
without an anesthetic and simple faith in Her God
God give me such a stout-hearted maiden!
I would beget more Gods through Her

Quote :
I believe... Humans created religion because they needed something to make sense of things around them that they didn't (couldn't yet) understand. It became 'ingrained' long before there was enough reason in the world to fully explain the descent of man and his environment (because man defines all things according to himself) and so it took root. It evolved with man as humans spread across the continents from 'Africa' as it has become known. Hence, the many different religions. All competing for supremacy, it seems. Ah evolution...!

Stone Age animism; An intuitive sense that Nature is Soul.
Early man did not have a sophisticated ego.
He saw himself as the hunter
- the provider.
He saw too that the luck of the hunt was no accident.
That the more conscious he became of Nature
as the source of his provisions,
the more cautious he became about trespass.
The less he trespassed the more he was rewarded.
He worshipped MA
and danced Her praise
each time the oryx lay dead.

Thus, early on in our evolution of consciousness,
ethical behavior became a religion of thought and practice.

To be continued....
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:21 am

MagnetMan wrote:

Marx was a short-sighted idiot
just like Nietzsche and Schopenhauer
too much sourkraut
I suspect.
Nice declaration.
It must be true.

Quote :
To be continued....
Why, it's all been obfuscating crap, with ambiguity masking as reasoning.

Besides I am someone else's plaything here, so I may be off.


Censorship is alive and well.
In the end weakness finds ways to feel better about itself with as little effort as possible.
Path of least resistance.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion is a joke...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:44 am

Satyr wrote:


Quote :
To be continued....
Why, it's all been obfuscating crap, with ambiguity masking as reasoning.

Besides I am someone else's plaything here, so I may be off.

If you cannot finish what you started
when you called out me
and my ilk
as fools
then, sir

Its check mate!

So I would suggest that you stay
and take your medicine
like a man
I have not finished with you yet
young man
you cannot exit with another insult
defeat me
or give me an apology


Unreasonable wrote:
But MM is slowly-exposing this for what it is, a fabrication.

If Satyr admits that God is a concept, then he is fucked.

If I deny that God is indeed a concept, it is I who will be fucked.
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