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 What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?

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Advocatus Diaboli
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:47 pm

Aidan_Mclaren wrote:

Can't help but agree with you and Satyr's opinion of Unreasonable. He does seem to want to jump on something to try and alleviate his suffering. Jumping on Satyr and me because of some perceived notion that we're different and turning it into a dream-world.
Yeah, Unreasonable is whacky.

Quote :
But why do I have a feeling you're not any different (albeit, being more mature)?
Maybe.

Quote :
It seems you think that there is something out there that seems to captures your eye and subsequently justifies your life. You're not admitting hatred, or the ironies of yourself and coping with it.

Tell me, because I'm curious to know, why is that?
Why should I require anything to justify my life? Who should I justify it to?

It seems to me that you create your own problem by assuming that there should be some sort of meaning in life.

Hate for me is a reaction against something that blocks your path, something that limits you acting out your desires and needs.

Life is only something that offers you possibility; a space within which one can use, manipulate and exploit things.

Given this, saying you hate life makes no sense; it's not specific enough, as life itself can not be something that blocks your path. No, you hate a part of, or something about your life. Yourself?
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:17 pm

Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
Yeah, Unreasonable is whacky.
You said it, and I agree. I'm "whacky"; I tried to warn others that I'm mentally insane: psychotic.

No matter how reasonable I try to be with other people, they don't hear half the things I'm attempting to say.

I. Have. To. Speak. Like. An. Infant.
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:54 am

Advocatus Diaboli wrote:

Why should I require anything to justify my life? Who should I justify it to?

You don't have to, but you will in some attempt to deal with one's suffering.

Obviously the person I'm implying who you justify to is yourself.

Quote :

It seems to me that you create your own problem by assuming that there should be some sort of meaning in life.

There is no "should". I don't think there "should" be a meaning to life; nor do I think it's going to do anything even if there were.

Quote :

Hate for me is a reaction against something that blocks your path, something that limits you acting out your desires and needs.

Indeed, which is why everything blocks your path. The oxygen that keeps you alive is against you because it corrodes your body.

Quote :

Life is only something that offers you possibility; a space within which one can use, manipulate and exploit things.

But what are those possibilities going to offer anything I don't already know of? How can everything not be dust in one's hand if it is superfluous? Why do I need to believe in that to live?

Quote :

Given this, saying you hate life makes no sense; it's not specific enough, as life itself can not be something that blocks your path. No, you hate a part of, or something about your life. Yourself?

Everything is not what I want. Everything is against me! Life is a problem within itself. It is will against another will.

I do hate myself too. Even I'm against my own desires.

But, tell me, how do you not hate yourself? How can one not be embarrased by one's own feeble attempts to cope with our situation?
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:13 am

Aidan_Mclaren wrote:

You don't have to, but you will in some attempt to deal with one's suffering.

Obviously the person I'm implying who you justify to is yourself.
Yes, you try to satisfy your suffering.

I don't try to justify my life in any overarching sense - it's a pointless question because life is absurd. I only work within the realm of the possible to try to achieve things that satisfy my needs.
Quote :

There is no "should". I don't think there "should" be a meaning to life; nor do I think it's going to do anything even if there were.

I do think you believe there should be a meaning to life. You seem to lament the fact that life is meaningless.
Quote :

Indeed, which is why everything blocks your path. The oxygen that keeps you alive is against you because it corrodes your body.
It's your desire to live forever?
Quote :

But what are those possibilities going to offer anything I don't already know of? How can everything not be dust in one's hand if it is superfluous? Why do I need to believe in that to live?
If you've experienced everything there is to experience and have satisfied your goals/restlessness then you can either kill yourself or simply enjoy the experience of being alive. Obviously you have neither experienced everything nor have you satisfied yourself. You are a small whiney child.
Quote :

Everything is not what I want. Everything is against me! Life is a problem within itself. It is will against another will.
Everything is against me if I want to fly. Everything is against me if I want to live forever. These things are for children. You are a child.

You are neurotic.
Quote :
I do hate myself too. Even I'm against my own desires.
You are neurotic and boring.
Quote :
But, tell me, how do you not hate yourself? How can one not be embarrased by one's own feeble attempts to cope with our situation?
I don't hate myself because I am not pathetic like you, you filthy neurotic child. You're 22?! TWENTY-TWO!?

Kill yourself.
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:11 am

I lament everything. What good will a "meaning" do?

You know...you're not doing a good job at hiding that you hate life. Others have performed better at this art.

Yes, I am boring, pathetic and neurotic. What else have you got to say I don't already know about myself? You want me to be a liar like you and be "strong"? Does that satisfy your life?

I don't think so. You're whining and having a tantrum in response to my post. Doesn't this sink into that petulant brain of yours that you can't deal with life?

You call me a child, yet you're in the corner of metaphorical room; crying and shouting about how you can deal with the pain and the realisation of your nothingness.

If I am a child, then I defy existence enough not to make me lie about it.

Also, when scoffing at the idea that your Satyr's puppet, try not act like him and say "Kill yourself" - which he is fond of saying to myself.

Yes, I am 22. So what? What's your point? Youth is overrated like everything else you overrate.

You don't hate yourself? Why look at others to ridicule if this is the case? You don't think you're hiding anything...?
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:37 am

You're similar to Unreasonable in that you both have extremely poor prose.

You're also similar in the way that you both capitalise on ideas that satisfy your anguish without actually thinking them through.

So when I say, "Hate for me is a reaction against something that blocks your path".

You say, "Indeed, which is why everything blocks your path."

You assume hatred, you assume the emotional content, and then you apply the thought ad hoc.

You don't think, you emote.

You're boring, pathetic and neurotic.

Please kill yourself.
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:30 am

Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
You're similar to Unreasonable in that you both have extremely poor prose.

That could be said to anyone you disagree with.

Quote :

You're also similar in the way that you both capitalise on ideas that satisfy your anguish without actually thinking them through.

Nothing satisfies my anguish. I think it through everyday. You know what? There is no escape! Escape is unreal. No path is the right path.

Quote :

So when I say, "Hate for me is a reaction against something that blocks your path".

You say, "Indeed, which is why everything blocks your path."

You assume hatred, you assume the emotional content, and then you apply the thought ad hoc.

My point was: If everything comes between you, and you perceive it, then you hate life. We were on the issue and I decided to cut to the chase.

Quote :

You don't think, you emote.

Likewise...?

Quote :

You're boring, pathetic and neurotic.

So are you. Maybe you'll give me an equally boring and pathetic lecture, like Satyr, how you think degrees and nuances compensate for that?

Do I need to believe I'm strong to live my life?

Quote :

Please kill yourself.

What's that going to accomplish exactly?

Please kill your own self and prove to me that death is worth taking.
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:48 am

I can disagree with people and still think they write well. The fact is you write poorly:

"Does that satisfy your life?"

"If I am a child, then I defy existence enough not to make me lie about it."

"...which he is fond of saying to myself."

"But what are those possibilities going to offer anything I don't already know of? How can everything not be dust in one's hand if it is superfluous? Why do I need to believe in that to live?"

"There is no escape! Escape is unreal. No path is the right path."

Simply atrocious.
Quote :

My point was: If everything comes between you, and you perceive it, then you hate life.
If I were a cripple and my desire was to walk then I would hate my condition, or I would focus that hate upon my wheelchair. I am strong enough to walk and so I feel no hate towards my legs or to my condition as it pertains to walking. What is coming between me and walking? I can easily conquer the forces that try to oppose me.

Quote :

Do I need to believe I'm strong to live my life?

What does it matter what you believe? Who cares?

Strength is a measure of how easily you are able to overcome or impose yourself on or manipulate and use things. Living life requires strength. Your position is the result of being too weak to live life to a satisfactory measure.

I ask you to kill yourself because, if you do, it will make the world a little bit better.
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:38 am

Advocatus Diaboli,

You are not fooling anybody around here, not on this website. Almost everybody here represents an intelligent individual. You may not. I assure you that Satyr, Aidan, and I all see right through you. You are attracted to our words and we are not attracted to yours. "Why?" you may ask yourself? It's because you don't say anything worth reading. You are reacting to words that have already been said. Furthermore, you are wrong in the sense that me, along with others, haven't thought through the extent of what we say. We have. We will.

You, on the other hand, haven't said anything for yourself. You do not represent yourself. You hide. If you expose yourself and write "truthfully" or "honestly", then I imagine you will sound exactly like Aidan. This is Aidan's whole point, unless I am mistaken! Therefore, you do not fool him. You do not fool me either. Aidan has taught me this lesson. You cannot write anything without being a hypocrite: you believe that your words are worth something to somebody outside yourself. This is never the case. Nobody cares about you or me and I think that's kind of funny, personally.

It means that Aidan is right. It means that Satyr and you are Nihilists and you don't even know it! That's hilarious.

If you speak, type, or act in anyway, you falsely believe that you are "important" or "worthy" of your action or Life. You are not. You deserve Nothing until you can prove otherwise to yourself first. And you can't. Others have tried and gone farther than you ever will, because you have Nothing to say. If you had something to say, then you would have said something by now. You haven't. You're a follower. The sad part is, everybody here already knows this and sees it.

Nothing you say can come as a surprise to people who have already been to where you've been, and beyond.

Explain to me how you're not both predictable and pathetic? -- I don't think you can.
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:37 am

Deleted.


Last edited by Aidan_Mclaren on Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I've got a more fitting post.)
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:39 pm

I would jump at your ideals if it weren't for the fact I'm awake to something else.

OK, I've stripped away religion, morality and all the things you say you despise (Which I have). I know life needs no meaning and no justification etc.

In fact I agree with pretty much most of what you are saying! Whether you believe me or not is up to you.

Where to now? Because that's what I want you and everybody else to explain to me!

Where does one go from here?

What would it have required for you to look at me differently?

I already know the answer: For me to express "love" for life.

Isn't it obvious that's why you detest me? Because I'm open with my hatred for something that is completely against my will-to-power? Isn't this obviously a dream-world like those Christians believe in?

That's why those degrees and nuances don't mean anything anymore to myself. They don't mean anything anymore because life is still a useless tautology regardless at my attempts to look at others.

You're still weak.

If you were so defiant, like a male, you would be defiant to life making you lie that you don't hate it.

You can't help but hate something that is so against yourself; even if it keeps you alive!
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:04 pm

Look, I'll accept that you don't want to admit that and I'll leave you to it.

Keep thinking that I'm weak and stupid if that's the way you want it to be.

I think I'll just find something else to do in my life.
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:46 pm

The point is that a love and a hate for life are not something you necessarily have to feel all the time. I have hated and I have loved life and I've felt both at the same time. I see neither of them as a feeling that is fundamental to life. They are reactions which arise from a certain standpoint: your will is imposed and you feel strong, you enjoy/love life; your will is thwarted and you feel weak, you hate life.

Do you see?? So, from my point of view, all you keep saying to me is, "my will has been thwarted!". So what? Do I care? No, I do not.

The only answer I can give for the fundamental feeling towards life, if that expression makes any sense, is anxiety/fear (given that life is only an open space of possibility). Both love and hate are reactions against fear since they arise from one's ability or inability to impose oneself onto the unknown.

You ask, "where does one go?" Is it up to me to tell you what do to? Do you want to be a slave? Then go find a master.

Unreasonable wrote:
You cannot write anything without being a hypocrite: you believe that your words are worth something to somebody outside yourself. This is never the case. Nobody cares about you or me and I think that's kind of funny, personally.

Leaving aside the rest of the grandiloquent nonsense that is your post, I'll take this out because it's the only thing remotely interesting.

First, you don't understand what hypocrite means. If it's your belief that your words are worth something to others and you act accordingly, how does that make you hypocritical? It doesn't.

But I can reproduce something here which I originally posted on another forum:

Quote :
An intrinsic part of all interactivity or socializing between humans is a fair deal of hypocrisy and pretense. In fact, just today, while sitting on a chair in a room, two individuals, a boy and a girl, plunked themselves down in the sofa across from me and began a conversation. The pretense was immediately perceptible: the smile upon greeting each other, the heightened voice, simulating excitement. As time passed the façade began to fade and through the cracks sprang small lights of honesty: the slight choke on the laugh, the smile that breaks a little too fast. The actors were getting tired.

Thankfully, on the internet such hypocrisy is lessened. Though still present in the mind of man, due him necessarily having to establish some sort of social persona, with the reduction of personal contact and physical evaluations much of the fakery is unnecessary and, as a result, we get a slightly distilled form of communication.

Barring the fact that ‘communication’ is essentially throwing noise-sound about which is connected to concepts, what seems to me to underlie what we call communication is simply competing awareness - and the law that applies here is gravity. Just as a river can not run upstream, neither can the less aware understand the more aware.

"The wise man learns more from the fool than the fool learns from the wise man."
Marcus Aurelius

In this sense, discussion, even on the internet where you don’t have to act as much and the cost is lowered, seems to me a mug’s game: in discussion with someone lower than you there seems to be little to gain – aside from observation of the other’s characteristics, but then wouldn’t silent observation do just as well? Is the cost worth it? – and with someone higher than you, you are left in the position of simply recognizing their superiority and there is little else to do but retreat or assimilate their information, or perhaps re-interpret their information into your own conceptual structure since you don’t truly understand what they’re saying anyway unless you are already aware of it.

With this in mind, I wonder, what is the value of communication? I already know the answer to this question: to get what you need.
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:07 pm

Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
Unreasonable wrote:
You cannot write anything without being a hypocrite: you believe that your words are worth something to somebody outside yourself. This is never the case. Nobody cares about you or me and I think that's kind of funny, personally.
Leaving aside the rest of the grandiloquent nonsense that is your post, I'll take this out because it's the only thing remotely interesting.

First, you don't understand what hypocrite means. If it's your belief that your words are worth something to others and you act accordingly, how does that make you hypocritical? It doesn't.
I see that you define my post as "grandiloquent nonsense", because you do not understand half of the things I say. If you did, then you would not have even responded to me. To respond to me both exposes my weakness first in posting and yours second in responding. If you were truly powerful, then you would stick to saying Nothing, as you are used to. Therein lies the whole problem of a Philosophy Forum ... redundancy.

I do understand what a hypocrite means; you are a fool to accuse me otherwise when it is clear that you do not even know my definition of it. And, being a coward, you do not ask me for my definition. Instead, you assume it, that you and I are possibly referring to the same thing, when we may not be. To answer your question: your words are worth nothing. The positive virtue of predetermination, that your words inherently contain meaning, is something that a Nihilist cannot comprehend. Unless you have completed the philosophical maturity through Nihilism, you cannot help yourself except to be a hypocrite by speaking, because ... Actions speak louder than Words. It is not until your words match your actions exactly that you can even hope to begin to escape this predisposition to a philosophical life-(style). In other words, if your actions spoke louder than words, then why would you even compel yourself to post here or elsewhere on a philosophical forum? To do so demonstrates a fundamental weakness of yourself -- that weakness pointed out by Aidan -- that you are a slave to Life and you cannot escape it (no matter what you might say or do).

Do you not see that: "That is a problem"?

It is a problem, because there would be no need to post here or anywhere unless you were exercising your Will.

If you take this literally, then your words precisely demonstrate your weakness. -- that you need yourself to speak and an Other to listen...


Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
But I can reproduce something here which I originally posted on another forum:
Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
An intrinsic part of all interactivity or socializing between humans is a fair deal of hypocrisy and pretense. In fact, just today, while sitting on a chair in a room, two individuals, a boy and a girl, plunked themselves down in the sofa across from me and began a conversation. The pretense was immediately perceptible: the smile upon greeting each other, the heightened voice, simulating excitement. As time passed the façade began to fade and through the cracks sprang small lights of honesty: the slight choke on the laugh, the smile that breaks a little too fast. The actors were getting tired.

Thankfully, on the internet such hypocrisy is lessened. Though still present in the mind of man, due him necessarily having to establish some sort of social persona, with the reduction of personal contact and physical evaluations much of the fakery is unnecessary and, as a result, we get a slightly distilled form of communication.

Barring the fact that ‘communication’ is essentially throwing noise-sound about which is connected to concepts, what seems to me to underlie what we call communication is simply competing awareness - and the law that applies here is gravity. Just as a river can not run upstream, neither can the less aware understand the more aware.

"The wise man learns more from the fool than the fool learns from the wise man."
Marcus Aurelius

In this sense, discussion, even on the internet where you don’t have to act as much and the cost is lowered, seems to me a mug’s game: in discussion with someone lower than you there seems to be little to gain – aside from observation of the other’s characteristics, but then wouldn’t silent observation do just as well? Is the cost worth it? – and with someone higher than you, you are left in the position of simply recognizing their superiority and there is little else to do but retreat or assimilate their information, or perhaps re-interpret their information into your own conceptual structure since you don’t truly understand what they’re saying anyway unless you are already aware of it.

With this in mind, I wonder, what is the value of communication? I already know the answer to this question: to get what you need.
I have read this before on ILO and I did not feel compelled to respond to it; I do not feel the same now.

Do you desire for me to display my thoughts about it? At your request, I may consider it.
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:07 am

Quote :
You ask, "where does one go?" Is it up to me to tell you what do to? Do you want to be a slave? Then go find a master.

No, I don't need you to tell me what to do. I already follow myself.

"Where does one go?" was a question for anyone who denies the pointlessness of "becoming".
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:26 am

Where else does one go except to their Fate or Destiny?

You are forced to your Purpose in Life by gravity.
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:35 pm

I take it Aidan you didn't like my last post since you didn't reply to it.

I thought this thread was directed to me.........
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:48 pm

I think I've starting to give this up, The Fool.
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:40 am

Aidan_Mclaren wrote:
I think I've starting to give this up, The Fool.
Not yet!

I'm curious. Is there some link you could provide to a synopsis of your life-hating philosophy, or your life-hating magnum opus; I'm not too familiar with your philosophy and that would save me having to put together a million little pieces.

I forget if it was in Xenophon or what but generally I sympathize the line, something like, Spartans hate death.

I suppose off-hand, hating life and loving life are quite similar; different from indifference.
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PostSubject: Re: What is your opinion to hating life, The Fool?   Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:02 am

Aidan_Mclaren wrote:
I think I've starting to give this up, The Fool.

Alright. Whatever which is clever.
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