Dissidents Philosophy Forum

Internet Philosophical Community
 
HomeCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Embracing Evil

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
misterhamtastic
Potential Contributor
Potential Contributor


Number of posts : 36
Registration date : 2008-12-14

PostSubject: Embracing Evil   Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:13 am

I don't understand. Isn't "evil" the antithesis of "good"? Aren't these properties relative to the person perceiving them? If so, what purpose is there in avoiding "evil" and embracing "good", except to limit us to a societally correct life?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alexi
Active Idealist
Active Idealist
avatar

Number of posts : 84
Location : Paris suburbs
Registration date : 2008-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:18 am

misterhamtastic wrote:
I don't understand. Isn't "evil" the antithesis of "good"?

No. You're wrong. They are not mutually exclusive. Something can be -- many things are -- good and evil.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
misterhamtastic
Potential Contributor
Potential Contributor


Number of posts : 36
Registration date : 2008-12-14

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:39 am

I would go further... all things are both to someone... both seem to lose their power completely if they are embraced or ignored jointly...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
creasy
Active Idealist
Active Idealist


Number of posts : 75
Registration date : 2008-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:07 pm

Things are all twisted up.
Sex is bad can twist and make the urge seem like rape.

Untwist, feel, then, maybe later act.

It's not like we already know what the urge really is.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
misterhamtastic
Potential Contributor
Potential Contributor


Number of posts : 36
Registration date : 2008-12-14

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:32 pm

Evil and Good are thus powerless unless we assign them power from ourselves... All things are thus just things, and evil and good need not apply.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
creasy
Active Idealist
Active Idealist


Number of posts : 75
Registration date : 2008-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:11 pm

To me they are shorthand words.

I could say that guy did things that made me want to vomit and I hate him - and probably have to get into more detail. Or I could say 'that was evil what that guy did'.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Unreasonable
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Male
Number of posts : 728
Age : 34
Location : Purgatory
Registration date : 2008-12-13

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:41 am

misterhamtastic wrote:
I don't understand. Isn't "evil" the antithesis of "good"?
Nothing is necessarily the antithesis of another thing.


misterhamtastic wrote:
Aren't these properties relative to the person perceiving them?
No, they are not all relative. Some people are better able to decipher their meaning than others.


misterhamtastic wrote:
If so, what purpose is there in avoiding "evil" and embracing "good", except to limit us to a societally correct life?
What's wrong with that, or, if that is merely their purpose?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
misterhamtastic
Potential Contributor
Potential Contributor


Number of posts : 36
Registration date : 2008-12-14

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:07 am

social correctness limits us from seeking to achieve any goal we choose, from becoming an astronaut to raping and torturing the elderly...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Unreasonable
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Male
Number of posts : 728
Age : 34
Location : Purgatory
Registration date : 2008-12-13

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:16 am

misterhamtastic wrote:
social correctness limits us from seeking to achieve any goal we choose, from becoming an astronaut to raping and torturing the elderly...
Yes.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
maryshelley
Animated Voice
Animated Voice


Number of posts : 242
Registration date : 2008-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:20 am

Unreasonable wrote:
misterhamtastic wrote:
social correctness limits us from seeking to achieve any goal we choose, from becoming an astronaut to raping and torturing the elderly...
Yes.

So no personal responsibilities then? No effort on the part of the individual to do or not do according to our, *ahem* appetities?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Unreasonable
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Male
Number of posts : 728
Age : 34
Location : Purgatory
Registration date : 2008-12-13

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:39 am

maryshelley wrote:
So no personal responsibilities then? No effort on the part of the individual to do or not do according to our, *ahem* appetities?
That depends on the Individual to which you are referring to, doesn't it?

You better hope he's a Reasonable Man if you want to hedge your bets...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
kriswest
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Number of posts : 264
Registration date : 2008-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:24 am

Why is it that injuring someone weaker has so much appeal to some? It certainly does not give proof of dominance or strength, it only proves that they are weak and weak minded.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Unreasonable
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Male
Number of posts : 728
Age : 34
Location : Purgatory
Registration date : 2008-12-13

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:51 pm

kriswest wrote:
Why is it that injuring someone weaker has so much appeal to some?
It pleasures a young boy with a childish mind to exercise his power over those weaker than himself. Gone unchecked, it can and will also lead to extreme egoism and a God-complex, unless that young boy is emasculated by another male.

The Nature of Justice then is to ensure that the highest Alpha Male of the human race is Just rather than Unjust, otherwise Tyranny will befall all others.


kriswest wrote:
It certainly does not give proof of dominance or strength, it only proves that they are weak and weak minded.
It only proves this to the female mind, not the male mind. Men see it completely differently.

Exercising such power shows men Strength, to kill, rape, harm others ... just because we can.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Advocatus Diaboli
Active Idealist
Active Idealist


Male
Number of posts : 68
Age : 29
Registration date : 2008-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:41 pm

How the hell does injuring (? A rather ambigious word to use) someone prove that you are weaker than them? That's ridiculous.

Unreasonable wrote:
kriswest wrote:
Why is it that injuring someone weaker has so much appeal to some?
It pleasures a young boy with a childish mind to exercise his power over those weaker than himself. Gone unchecked, it can and will also lead to extreme egoism and a God-complex, unless that young boy is emasculated by another male.

It's common for people to reference immaturity when speaking of things like power and the exercising of it - but don't we all enjoy imposing ourselves on things? Even on inanimate objects.

Maybe 'maturing', as commonly used, is simply the process of adapting oneself and learning how and when to enjoy one's power according to -- what? Well, isn't that what seperates the men from the boys who have only learnt to control themselves under the command of an authority?

[/quote]The Nature of Justice then is to ensure that the highest Alpha Male of the human race is Just rather than Unjust, otherwise Tyranny will befall all others.[/quote]

This is pretty overblown. I don't get this practice of capitalising random words.. as if it makes them more profound.

Tyranny is the way of the world. Ever been in a playground? Does the nice and just teacher stop the tyranny? No, he only supresses the open display of it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Satyr
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Male
Number of posts : 540
Age : 51
Location : The Edge
Registration date : 2008-12-13

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:44 pm

Hey look, a rational human being with the balls to be honest.

Are we not imposing our will on things constantly?
The act of existing, of taking up space, is an imposition.

When we breath we are denying this breathe to another.
and how to be survive? We eat.
We live on the death of others.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://calicantsar.blogspot.com/
Unreasonable
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Male
Number of posts : 728
Age : 34
Location : Purgatory
Registration date : 2008-12-13

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:51 pm

Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
It's common for people to reference immaturity when speaking of things like power and the exercising of it - but don't we all enjoy imposing ourselves on things? Even on inanimate objects.

Maybe 'maturing', as commonly used, is simply the process of adapting oneself and learning how and when to enjoy one's power according to -- what? Well, isn't that what seperates the men from the boys who have only learnt to control themselves under the command of an authority?
Yes, of course we all enjoy imposing ourselves onto other things, or people.

I merely use the maturity reference, because it is fairly popular and easy for people to understand. Would a different analogy suffice you?

Authority is the "big-come-down" after all. -- who owns their words, how & why.


Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
Quote :
The Nature of Justice then is to ensure that the highest Alpha Male of the human race is Just rather than Unjust, otherwise Tyranny will befall all others.

This is pretty overblown. I don't get this practice of capitalising random words.. as if it makes them more profound.

Tyranny is the way of the world. Ever been in a playground? Does the nice and just teacher stop the tyranny? No, he only supresses the open display of it.
I capitalize words in order to convey a more accurate meaning to which I originally intend to express (i.e. what I mean). If you or others don't like it, then I don't really see the need to defend myself regardless. I am merely attempting to define a concept that is being socially discussed.

Yes, I have been in a playground. Do you want to know what happens to the brattiest kids?

They get sent to the principle's office (God) and he has the power to expel them (from Society).


...Justice in motion.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Advocatus Diaboli
Active Idealist
Active Idealist


Male
Number of posts : 68
Age : 29
Registration date : 2008-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:11 pm

Unreasonable wrote:
Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
It's common for people to reference immaturity when speaking of things like power and the exercising of it - but don't we all enjoy imposing ourselves on things? Even on inanimate objects.

Maybe 'maturing', as commonly used, is simply the process of adapting oneself and learning how and when to enjoy one's power according to -- what? Well, isn't that what seperates the men from the boys who have only learnt to control themselves under the command of an authority?
Yes, of course we all enjoy imposing ourselves onto other things, or people.

I merely use the maturity reference, because it is fairly popular and easy for people do understand. Would a different analogy suffice you?

Authority is the "big-come-down" after all. -- who owns their words, how & why.

Maybe a different analogy (maturity isn't an analogy in the first place) would be good since apparently I didn't understand what you were saying.

In the same way, I don't really understand what you're saying here either. Perhaps a different analogy is in order.

Quote :

I capitalize words in order to convey a more accurate meaning to which I originally intend to express (i.e. what I mean). If you or others don't like it, then I don't really see the need to defend myself regardless. I am merely attempting to define a concept that is being socially discussed.

Yes, I have been in a playground. Do you want to know what happens to the brattiest kids?

They get sent to the principle's office (God) and he has the power to expel them (from Society).


...Justice in motion.

A better way to convey a more accurate meaning is to drop the typocraphical decoration and explain yourself.

So your 'justice' is rule by the majority, by the muddled crowd? Delicious. Yet, you still do not stop the tyranny. All you do is excommunicate that which openly reminds you of tyranny as you have constructed it - the social nastiness.

As Satyr pointed out, there are many forms of tyranny, of imposing yourself. Your justice is to simply cut away expressions that are too ugly for you. You called others immature or implied it, but now what is your justice if not immaturity personified? What psychological twists underlie this Justice?

I can't answer the question properly, but I certainly smell something.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Unreasonable
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Male
Number of posts : 728
Age : 34
Location : Purgatory
Registration date : 2008-12-13

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:19 pm

Unfortunately, Advocatus Diaboli, I am not a wise-enough philosopher to authorize what is Justice to anybody right now.

So, if you want me to prove my points on Justice right now, then I will not be able to do so in the end. I am making assumptions.


I agree that Tyranny exists on the playground, in the school, and in Society as a whole. However, this does not remove the fact of the matter that Justice is a commonly-held notion that presupposes a direct resistance to Tyranny. The principle exists for a reason and so do the kids, to play in a caged-playground, away from pedophiles and predators. After all, the school education institution is used to both protect, reform, and enslave their children from the "outside world".

My main point is this: Justice exists just as well as Tyranny. However, I cannot qualify this point to you, because I lack the Knowledge right now.

It is something I've been studying for a long while now.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
creasy
Active Idealist
Active Idealist


Number of posts : 75
Registration date : 2008-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:32 pm

Quote :
Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
Tyranny is the way of the world. Ever been in a playground? Does the nice and just teacher stop the tyranny? No, he only supresses the open display of it.
I've been in playgrounds where symbiosis was the rule. I been in others where some members had to have dominance. I don't think the only choices are tyranny and a false facade over tyranny or suppression of tyranny.
I've had similar experiences in a number of different contexts: sports, workplaces, etc.

Some people seem to want to turn everything into a domination game. Some don't.

Then apologists for domination say that it always has been and always will be.

And this kind of thinking is self-fulfilling and causal, though less and less believe it and it may very well die out.

It is important to look at the fear that is holding this idea in place.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Advocatus Diaboli
Active Idealist
Active Idealist


Male
Number of posts : 68
Age : 29
Registration date : 2008-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:23 am

Frankly, it seems to me that everything is a domination game whether you'd like to admit it or not. I'm just going to riff around on a couple of ideas that have been floating through my head.

What happens in symbiosis? Things become dependent on each other and therefore have to compromise in order to get what they need; and that is a facade, even if we might call it a sincere facade. Don't tell me that workplaces and sport games aren't chock-full of supressed feelings of hatred, annoyance, jealousy, resentment - your dependency on your job, on your friendship with your teammates, the mother's love in the childs case, whatever else, defines your boundries. Aren't all these things based on the fear of loss?

More and more, I'm beginning to think that all we are as organisms are exploitation machines - nothing but - and that all our emotions and feelings are simply evolved mechanisms to make the exploitation more authentic. It was too hard to convince a woman to have sex with you without loving her, i.e. offering her some weakness to exploit, so we started to love each other. Ok, maybe that's not entirely correct but it still makes sense in a way as love is also a domination game.

Haven't we invented nice concepts to help the exploitation along all the while denying that it's exploitation? Intimacy for example. A total misnomer. All it seems to signal to me is the level of your own dependency and weakness in relation to another person. You tell a person a secret, i.e. display weakness, and you become more intimate.

Why don't we also look at the fear that resists this/these idea(s)? Spontaneously, it seems are far more fearful position to deny domination and exploitation and the process of imposing yourself in favour of communal ideas of symbiosis and 'having fun' or whatever.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
kriswest
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Number of posts : 264
Registration date : 2008-12-15

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:09 am

Unreasonable wrote:
kriswest wrote:
Why is it that injuring someone weaker has so much appeal to some?
It pleasures a young boy with a childish mind to exercise his power over those weaker than himself. Gone unchecked, it can and will also lead to extreme egoism and a God-complex, unless that young boy is emasculated by another male.

The Nature of Justice then is to ensure that the highest Alpha Male of the human race is Just rather than Unjust, otherwise Tyranny will befall all others.


kriswest wrote:
It certainly does not give proof of dominance or strength, it only proves that they are weak and weak minded.
It only proves this to the female mind, not the male mind. Men see it completely differently.

Exercising such power shows men Strength, to kill, rape, harm others ... just because we can.

My friend you will note that I said people, women are just as guilty of these actions and thoughts.
And just how does a male see such a display of pathetic attempts at self inflating vanity?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Unreasonable
Animated Voice
Animated Voice
avatar

Male
Number of posts : 728
Age : 34
Location : Purgatory
Registration date : 2008-12-13

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:31 am

kriswest wrote:
And just how does a male see such a display of pathetic attempts at self inflating vanity?
I guess, disgust & jealousy.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
creasy
Active Idealist
Active Idealist


Number of posts : 75
Registration date : 2008-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:24 am

Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
Frankly, it seems to me that everything is a domination game whether you'd like to admit it or not.
Consider the possibility that I have experienced things you have not. I, constitutionally, cannot help but notice what people have going on even if they are unconscious of it, but nevertheless I have had the experiences I had. They are rare, but then I have specifically sought out alternative environments.

Quote :
What happens in symbiosis? Things become dependent on each other and therefore have to compromise in order to get what they need; and that is a facade, even if we might call it a sincere facade. Don't tell me that workplaces and sport games aren't chock-full of supressed feelings of hatred, annoyance, jealousy, resentment - your dependency on your job, on your friendship with your teammates, the mother's love in the childs case, whatever else, defines your boundries. Aren't all these things based on the fear of loss?
To me this is an old fear. That we either suppress our real feelings and desires or we dominate/get dominated. That fear has become a rule and now we see this rule all around us.

I'm no fan of false fronts and propriety and politeness, and I've ended up getting close to other people who are also not fans AND who also do not assume that what is left is domination games and the only good one can do is be honest about it.

Probably if you and I could witness some different environments together, we would happily end up agreeing about a lot of what is going on under the surface. So this issue will stress our differences. I do see those patterns, and I see them all over the place. But not everywhere.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Advocatus Diaboli
Active Idealist
Active Idealist


Male
Number of posts : 68
Age : 29
Registration date : 2008-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:41 am

creasy wrote:
Consider the possibility that I have experienced things you have not. I, constitutionally, cannot help but notice what people have going on even if they are unconscious of it, but nevertheless I have had the experiences I had. They are rare, but then I have specifically sought out alternative environments.
Is experience all that important? Doesn't the process of thinking and imagining offer one the ability to draw conclusions from things precisely without experiencing them?

People who are dumb as bricks never learn anything, no matter how much experience they have. The more sensitive and intelligent can go as far with a smaller pool of experience from which to draw.

Quote :
To me this is an old fear. That we either suppress our real feelings and desires or we dominate/get dominated. That fear has become a rule and now we see this rule all around us.

I don't see the people around me being aware of the rule at all. Quite the opposite. I see them acting in ways that confirm what I am saying while denying that it's true.

Quote :
I'm no fan of false fronts and propriety and politeness, and I've ended up getting close to other people who are also not fans AND who also do not assume that what is left is domination games and the only good one can do is be honest about it.

Probably if you and I could witness some different environments together, we would happily end up agreeing about a lot of what is going on under the surface. So this issue will stress our differences. I do see those patterns, and I see them all over the place. But not everywhere.

Maybe those areas where you don't see the patterns are places where they are harder to see. For instance in cases where two humans are very similar in power quantities, if you want to use that phrase, then the dominated will still be very close to the dominator.

But I don't see where you are arguing with me really. All you want to do is save some space where these ideas do not apply. They do apply; even in a handshake, they apply.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
creasy
Active Idealist
Active Idealist


Number of posts : 75
Registration date : 2008-12-16

PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:53 pm

Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
Is experience all that important?

Very. The amount of people out there who think they are experts about things they haven├Ąt experienced is enormous. Sure, some few can draw good conclusions from limited experience. But imagine your reaction to someone who says chairs are either made of wood or plastic.

Quote :
Doesn't the process of thinking and imagining offer one the ability to draw conclusions from things precisely without experiencing them?
Possibility being the key word.

Quote :
People who are dumb as bricks never learn anything, no matter how much experience they have. The more sensitive and intelligent can go as far with a smaller pool of experience from which to draw.
Sure, but this doesn't really mean one should consider that they are forming judgments that are incorrect based on limited experience. I mean either you will consider this or you won't, but you seem to be saying that there is no need to consider the possibiity because some people can have good insights with limited experiences (sometimes, I might add).


Quote :
I don't see the people around me being aware of the rule at all. Quite the opposite. I see them acting in ways that confirm what I am saying while denying that it's true.
They are afraid to notice that they believe in this rule. If you watch how they act you can see how much they defend, pre-empt attacks, etc.


Quote :
Maybe those areas where you don't see the patterns are places where they are harder to see.
No. In the airy abstract realm we're in you 'could' be right. But no, you are wrong.

You could just say that you know you are right and you refuse to consider the possibility that I have experienced something different.
Quote :
But I don't see where you are arguing with me really. All you want to do is save some space where these ideas do not apply. They do apply; even in a handshake, they apply.
I understood your position.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Embracing Evil   

Back to top Go down
 
Embracing Evil
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» [b]VIDEO STORES EVIL SPIRITS HAVEN??????[/b]
» Dream of Old woman turning evil at sunset-other witnesses....
» a man with tatoos, evil spirits behind a curtain
» Dream of Church, funeral/euology,Pastor changing into an evil woman-Aged associate Pastor
» Evil man at the window

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Dissidents Philosophy Forum :: Religiosity-
Jump to: