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 My View on Death

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system-hater
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PostSubject: My View on Death   Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:58 pm

Hello there gents and ladies (however few of you there are)

I think I’ll take a bit of a break from my preaching of the technological-industrial society, and settle into a more interesting topic.

When I think of death, I think of the unknown. Now this presence of the unknown may or may not induce religious qualms, but I feel that a realistic view of it should not go unwarranted. Now, as human beings, naturally we are plagued with Ethos and Pathos- Emotional state and philosophical and/or intellectual state. These varying degrees of humanity are what tortures us throughout or lives. Grief, sadness, happiness, joy, anger, rage, thought, desire, lust, contemplation, all are forms of suffering and enjoyment innate in the human condition. The purpose of death, I feel, is to free us from these viral propensities and urges, and to transport us into a more serene or tranquil state of existence where we do not feel any forms of desire, and cultivate no thoughts.

Now, the existence of this purged state of Ethos and Pathos, I think should be labeled as “pure being”, in other words, a form of existence, free of all human nature. So the question would be, “this form of pure existence, would bear no consciousness?” I would like to say that it wouldn’t. Consciousness is also a form of human nature, and if we still retain a level of veritable “consciousness” even after death, than I feel that this pure being I venerate, may not be possible. Although, if we were to be free of any and all thoughts and feelings, I trust that would be the freeing of “consciousness” in itself. But I cannot say for certain what consciousness can be after death if it can be anything, so I am unable to provide any definitive outlook from my rationalization. However, what would be the point of death, if NOT to free us from our human condition? And our suffering? I love to place death into a more peaceful schema of potential. I like to imagine that death could offer a life correlating to that of a “tree” or a “grain of sand”, something that exists, and sustains itself as any other obstinate thing would. This would be my definition of a “good” afterlife.

What do you think guys?
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SpeedOfSilence
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PostSubject: Re: My View on Death   Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:59 am

The problem with death is the idea of the "I".

When you die, "I" remains except that it is uttered by another body-mind-spirit. When you say "I" will die you are confusing yourself with the body. Your consciousness surely will die and surely your personality. But just like the clouds that form to become a beautiful image in the sky that event will surely cease and break up.

After death is what it was like before birth. That "ether" which manifests itself but keeps hidden in all things great and small returns to itself. That "itself" can never be know. I think it is ever known the universe will come to a complete end.
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PostSubject: Re: My View on Death   Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:31 pm

Quote :
The purpose of death, I feel, is to free us from these viral propensities and urges, and to transport us into a more serene or tranquil state of existence where we do not feel any forms of desire, and cultivate no thoughts.

...

However, what would be the point of death, if NOT to free us from our human condition? And our suffering?

Upon death, there is no "we", or "you", or "me". There is no stable, core self that is separable from, and independent of, the particular phenomenon of life that is dying.

The suffering, the thoughts, the desires, the emotions, those drives, are you. Stop these, and you erase yourself from existence.

Quote :
Now, the existence of this purged state of Ethos and Pathos, I think should be labeled as “pure being”, in other words, a form of existence, free of all human nature

Such a state is a metaphor for non-existence. "Tranquil", "serene", and so on, are, in this context, synonyms for inactivity, and a freedom from all human nature implies an absence of activity- no desires, no emotions, no thoughts, no self-perpetuation, no ordering, and, ultimately, no microscopic activity.

Existence is constant activity. If one partitions microscopic particles enough times, breaking down electrons, protons, neutrons, etc., what remains is waves- constant activity. Even if one removes all heat from a system, the particles still vibrate with a base level of movement (zero-point energy)- these particles are the movement.

What we perceive as solid objects, are essentially waves oscillating so tightly their constant activity cannot be perceived, on a macroscopic scale.

This constant activity, manifests macroscopically. A phenomenon of life is constantly performing ordering and self-perpetuating activities. Even while sitting still, apparently inactive, its cells are continually respirating, it still breathes, and digests, and performs other functions, and even if these are stopped, somehow, without disintegrating this unity, the molecules that compose this creature continue vibrating.

Thus, if one were to remove all activity (begin a tranquil, serene state), one would remove all existence. Remove the macroscopic activities that define you as a phenomenon of life (suffering, thinking, desiring, etc.), and you, as a specific phenomenon, cease existing.

In other words, when you die, there is no "transporting" of you. There is no "you" left to transport. Transportation is, if anything, a metaphor for an end to your existence.

Quote :
I would like to say that it wouldn’t. Consciousness is also a form of human nature, and if we still retain a level of veritable “consciousness” even after death, than I feel that this pure being I venerate, may not be possible. Although, if we were to be free of any and all thoughts and feelings, I trust that would be the freeing of “consciousness” in itself.

Yes, consciousness is an adaptation that controls (directs, organizes, alters) activity. In a tranquil, serene state (a state of inactivity) there is no need for consciousness, and it will thus not develop or will atrophy.

That is one reason that a conscious, perfect God is an absurdity.
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PostSubject: Re: My View on Death   Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm

(Sorry, my vocabulary in english is rather very narrow.)

While growing up, I have wondered how I could live in peace with no doubts and fears, without analyzing and knowing first what my death really is.
Many told me they enjoy keeping it, like many other things, as an enigma.

Being a rational person, I have started with the fact that death will take my will away from the time/space realm I live in. In other words, death will return me back to void (relative to my actual existence) as in the following simple equation:

Void > forced birth into actual life > death > void.

My first axiom is that the starting and ending voids are, practically speaking, alike.
My second axiom is that after the first void, there must be an external Power/Will (external to mine) that has forced me, in a way or another, to exist in this time/space life.

Based on the intuitive rule "What happens once, could happen twice", I deduced that there is always the possibility that this same external Power/Will could allow me (actually force me), while I am in the second void (i.e. after my death) to be in a sort of realm again.

Therefore, my next important question became to find out what this possible second life could be. First I rejected the idea of reincarnation because it would throw me into a quasi-endless loop, instead of a real and concrete fact that I am looking for.

So I asked myself: "Did I have the opportunity to know the state of death in my life?"
To my big surprise, the answer was YES. Simply because, every time I went to sleep, I was indeed temporarily killing myself by losing all my conscious controls related to the time/space realm. In other words, I let myself be in a state of voidness (always relative to myself since for others I am still alive). Then, my quasi-dead body (while sleeping) is already programmed, if all factors are normal, to return me back once again into this existence sooner or later.

But sometimes while I am in a deep sleep (in a real void) and before I wake up, I may be forced to be (born) into a special existence, known as DREAM. In a dream I feel as if I am returning back to life though in which there are no time/space limits and my will to change things is rather paralyzed. Naturally my body will exit me from this realm of dream so that my time/space existence can resume for another day perhaps, and only then I would know that I was dreaming.

So to me in the least, I can't deny that whatever created me gave me the possibility to live, on earth, in two totally different realms known as LIFE and DREAM. And although my dreams are now stimulated and/or ended by my actual living body, the death of the latter will not imply that my Creator cannot allow me to be born in a dream-like existence. So logically, no matter how long I will be in the state of voidness after the death of my body, I may live again in an ENDLESS dream since there is no flesh to end it.

Now the above equation becomes:

Void > forced birth into actual life > death(last sleep) > void > forced birth into possible eternal dream.

May I say that I live in a way that lets my dreams (hence the last dream too), as peaceful and enjoyable as possible. On the other hand and I may be wrong, I believe that only the spiritual joy due to the true (unconditional) Love toward others is eternal while all other sensations will end up again to voidness even in the last dream!
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