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 Religion Is Nihilism. Religion Is Solipsism. Religion Is The Ultimate Form Of Narcissism.

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PostSubject: Religion Is Nihilism. Religion Is Solipsism. Religion Is The Ultimate Form Of Narcissism.   Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:24 pm

Religion is nihilism. Religion is solipsism. Religion is the ultimate form of narcissism.

What do I mean by saying this?

In order to understand this we must first understand what nihilism, solipsism, and narcissism is.

Nihilism is the postulation that existence revolves around aimless relativity where existence lacks all objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value by itself. Nihilism is anomie.

You see the existence of religion can only take place in such a state of existence. A nihilistic existence.

For in order to create objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value one must first exist in a place where there is none ( A place of absence.) for only in place where there is no objectivity or purpose does there come a selfish desire to create one.

Take the image below of the painting Narcissus by Caravaggio circa 1598.

Only in a nihilistic universe where there is aimless relativity everywhere where objective purpose, meaning, and value is non-existent upon being absent would a creature have the selfish desire to create one yet ironically when such a creature is faced with such a existence with only themselves to look at in that all by themselves the only reply amongst a completely indifferent place and time is the mirror of themselves do they come to worship themselves by valuing themselves alone as the greatest hallmark of the entirety of existence.

Let us continue-

Religion is narcissism.

What is narcissism? Narcissism is self love based upon self image and ego. It is vanity.

Only a narcisstic creature would create god made in it's own image believing at the same time that such a omniscient and omnipresent entity revolves around it's existence constantly watching and judging it's own activities.

Only a narcisstic creature would place it's own emphasis above all other creatures by looking at itself as the center of the universe and earth in being uniquely special or privileged above the rest as the definer of all reality.

One might say that the worship of god beyond metaphor and liturgy is the worship of man.

Religion is the worship of a idol ( or idols) created in the image, narrative,and likeness of man himself.

Religion is the worship of man himself. Religion is the worship of man's purpose, self manifested destiny, and his abilities of being able to create or invent.

Let us continue more-

What is solipsism?

Solipsism is the philosophical idea that "My mind is the only thing that I know exists." Solipsism is an epistemological or ontological position that knowledge of anything outside the mind is unjustified. The external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist.


Solipsism is basically saying the only thing that is real is what one thinks, perceives, and believes.


Only the religious could be so solipsist in that when they are presented with contrasting view points of "god" ( or gods.) non-existing they fall back upon faith that word in which they use that is practically synonymous with solipsism itself.


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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Religion Is Nihilism. Religion Is Solipsism. Religion Is The Ultimate Form Of Narcissism.   Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:48 pm

I don't know about this.

I think that it is possible to have a spirituality that is neither solipsist nor nihilist.

The worship of nature, for example, which is the original spiritual awareness.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion Is Nihilism. Religion Is Solipsism. Religion Is The Ultimate Form Of Narcissism.   Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:23 pm

Religion itself means so many different things. You are saying all religion- all religions; Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and the rest- are narcissism? Do you have sufficient knowledge of these religions to make this claim?
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PostSubject: Re: Religion Is Nihilism. Religion Is Solipsism. Religion Is The Ultimate Form Of Narcissism.   Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:00 pm

Nikolai wrote:
Religion itself means so many different things. You are saying all religion- all religions; Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and the rest- are narcissism? Do you have sufficient knowledge of these religions to make this claim?
I'm saying the major modern ones are nihilistic.

I think there are geopolitical and demographic reasons why they took hold and spread quickly.
It also explains why they still endure.
The conditions that made them necessary are still present and getting worse.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion Is Nihilism. Religion Is Solipsism. Religion Is The Ultimate Form Of Narcissism.   Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:14 am

So only where there is no objectivity does one feel the urge to create an objective judgment?

But to put it this way implies a contrast. As if a being where there was objective meaning would not try to describe objective truths.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion Is Nihilism. Religion Is Solipsism. Religion Is The Ultimate Form Of Narcissism.   Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:10 pm

Satyr wrote:
I don't know about this.

I think that it is possible to have a spirituality that is neither solipsist nor nihilist.

The worship of nature, for example, which is the original spiritual awareness.

Every worship of nature has some meta-narrative of man in it that requires a sense of solipsism and nihilism I think.

Quote :
I'm saying the major modern ones are nihilistic.

I think there are geopolitical and demographic reasons why they took hold and spread quickly.
It also explains why they still endure.
The conditions that made them necessary are still present and getting worse.

I would argue all religions of faith require a sense and being revolving around nihilism or solipsism.

Both ancient and modern religions.


Last edited by The Fool on Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Religion Is Nihilism. Religion Is Solipsism. Religion Is The Ultimate Form Of Narcissism.   Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:12 pm

Nikolai wrote:
Religion itself means so many different things. You are saying all religion- all religions; Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and the rest- are narcissism? Do you have sufficient knowledge of these religions to make this claim?

I have significant knowledge of many world religions considering before I entered philosophy I devoted six years of my life studying them intensely.

In every religion there lies a meta-narrative manifestation where man sees himself as unique, special, and divine above everything else.

Every religion has the manifestation of man being the only definer of value universally.

Every religion has man as the interpreter, definer, and creator of reality either by himself or through a invented metaphor created by himself like god and so on.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion Is Nihilism. Religion Is Solipsism. Religion Is The Ultimate Form Of Narcissism.   Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:22 pm

To Creasy:

I'm sorry that I accidentally deleted your post. I was trying to reply to it but instead accidentally edited it entirely.

The administrator controls here are not that impressive and often enough confuse the quote button for the edit.

Will you please post the entirety of your message again so that I may adequately reply to what you said originally.

I'll try to be more careful so that it doesn't happen again.




As for what you said that didn't get deleted on accident:

Quote :
So only where there is no objectivity does one feel the urge to create an objective judgment?

Yes that is exactly what I mean.

Quote :
But to put it this way implies a contrast. As if a being where there was objective meaning would not try to describe objective truths.

Not sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate?
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PostSubject: Re: Religion Is Nihilism. Religion Is Solipsism. Religion Is The Ultimate Form Of Narcissism.   Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:20 pm

Satyr wrote:
I don't know about this.

I think that it is possible to have a spirituality that is neither solipsist nor nihilist.

The worship of nature, for example, which is the original spiritual awareness.

I think vague spiritual awareness is far more in accordance with solipsism than believing in an organised religion. At least an organised religion has a particular model which requires the presumption of an objective reality that exists outside of your perceptions. Vague spiritualism is unmitigated masturbation.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion Is Nihilism. Religion Is Solipsism. Religion Is The Ultimate Form Of Narcissism.   Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:08 pm

Lucretia wrote:
Satyr wrote:
I don't know about this.

I think that it is possible to have a spirituality that is neither solipsist nor nihilist.

The worship of nature, for example, which is the original spiritual awareness.

I think vague spiritual awareness is far more in accordance with solipsism than believing in an organised religion. At least an organised religion has a particular model which requires the presumption of an objective reality that exists outside of your perceptions. Vague spiritualism is unmitigated masturbation.

Quote :
organised religion has a particular model which requires the presumption of an objective reality that exists outside of your perceptions.

And it is through that presumption that solipsism comes in.

You have no way of knowing that presumption is true but because such a presumption makes you feel great, safe, and secure in your own little bubble world through solipsism you just tell yourself that is truth irregardless that it doesn't correspond to reality at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion Is Nihilism. Religion Is Solipsism. Religion Is The Ultimate Form Of Narcissism.   Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:42 pm

Yes that is true. I suppose the difference between people with vague spiritual awareness and members of organised religion is not significant, and I have always called them both solipsists, but vague spiritualists are such douchebags that I have it more out for them.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion Is Nihilism. Religion Is Solipsism. Religion Is The Ultimate Form Of Narcissism.   Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:21 pm

The Fool wrote:
To Creasy:

I'm sorry that I accidentally deleted your post. I was trying to reply to it but instead accidentally edited it entirely.

The administrator controls here are not that impressive and often enough confuse the quote button for the edit.

Will you please post the entirety of your message again so that I may adequately reply to what you said originally.

I'll try to be more careful so that it doesn't happen again.

No problem.


Quote :
As for what you said that didn't get deleted on accident:

Quote :
So only where there is no objectivity does one feel the urge to create an objective judgment?

Yes that is exactly what I mean.
I assume then that you do not believe a judgment can be objective.

Quote :
But to put it this way implies a contrast. As if a being where there was objective meaning would not try to describe objective truths.

Not sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate?[/quote] It seems implicit that you view reality or what we experience as lacking objective truths. In this environment we have a desire to have this because of the lack.
this implies that if there was an environment where there was objective truth, we would not desire it. Or? I do desire things and processes that are present. It seems like you are saying we only desire that which does not exist. But I desire things that exist (at the very least, also).

as another issue: your op, when it refers to the narcissism of religion, seems to be in reaction to the organized monotheisms, and does not fit so well with nature based 'pagan' religions, for example.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion Is Nihilism. Religion Is Solipsism. Religion Is The Ultimate Form Of Narcissism.   Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:57 pm

Quote :
I assume then that you do not believe a judgment can be objective.

Your assumption of me is quite correct.


Quote :
It seems implicit that you view reality or what we experience as lacking objective truths.

Yes.


Quote :
In this environment we have a desire to have this because of the lack.

Yes.

Quote :
this implies that if there was an environment where there was objective truth, we would not desire it.

But that is built upon the assumption that such a dimension exists.

Quote :
Or? I do desire things and processes that are present.


The problem with that is subjectivity.


Quote :
It seems like you are saying we only desire that which does not exist.

Not entirely. But in many ways we do.

Quote :
as another issue: your op, when it refers to the narcissism of religion, seems to be in reaction to the organized monotheisms, and does not fit so well with nature based 'pagan' religions, for example.

I look at all religions as being similar in their motives, utility, and aims.
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