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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:56 am

Reread what I said.

That you have that option is a product of technological innovations in birth control.

But attraction is based on being attracted to the characteristics you find you do want to reproduce....
That's the only reason sex evolved.

For instance beauty is a marker of fitness.

This is where the what many think and what they do contradicts itself.

If you fuck someone without really being that attracted to them, to release some energy, or for social reasons....then you are right.

But if you desire to fuck them then you are unconsciously attracted to the traits you do want to replicate, as a woman, especially.

A man is attracted to health...given off as a waist to hip ratio, skin, hair, shape, smell ect.

He wants to seed it, because this offers the best potential that healthy offspring will be produced.

He/she may not consciously know it but his genes scream to unite with this other.

The desire is how the genes make the brain do what they want.

It's all genetically programmed into us, as an instinctive reaction, evaluation.
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:11 am

Satyr wrote:


That you have that option is a product of technological innovations in birth control.

If you fuck someone without really being that attracted to them, to release some energy, or for social reasons....then you are right.

Birth control has been around for a very long time. The ancient Egyptions were using condoms made of papyrus, for instance. Women who couldn't bear the thought of an offspring have been getting rid of the consequence of fucking for a lot longer probably; risky business though.

The fact that drone was lying to these birds suggests the 'release' or social option. He did it just because he could. He appears to want a 'soul' (gene) mate. The old romantic. Or he was lying to himself about his selfish genes (go fuck, go fuck)....

But yes we do seek out fitness of one sort or another.
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:16 am

By the way I read somewhere that the birth control pill makes women smell differently (not as fit).

What do you suppose that could mean?
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:50 am

maryshelley wrote:


Birth control has been around for a very long time. The ancient Egyptions were using condoms made of papyrus, for instance. Women who couldn't bear the thought of an offspring have been getting rid of the consequence of fucking for a lot longer probably; risky business though.
Yes, and?
Quote :

The fact that drone was lying to these birds suggests the 'release' or social option. He did it just because he could. He appears to want a 'soul' (gene) mate. The old romantic. Or he was lying to himself about his selfish genes (go fuck, go fuck)....
He was torn....part of him wanted to get laid with whatever was immediately available and appealing....another part of him, the idealistic part, feared that by lying he may be risking finding his perfect mate.

Long term consideratinos versus short term ones.

Quote :
By the way I read somewhere that the birth control pill makes women smell differently (not as fit).

What do you suppose that could mean?
If that's true then it only shows how the mind may be fooled but the senses not.

I can imagine a pious man, wanting to think of himself as pure and noble and normal, being dismayed at getting a hard-on at the sight of a little girl or boy.

How actions speak louder and more honestly than any word can.

How one, can deny the power of need over him, and then be driven to act by one.

How one can claim to be fearless and then deny any idea that threatens his well-being.

How one can say "I love you." and then cheat on you or beat eh shit out of you.

This is the conflict of meme with gene.

Natural inclinations, instincts, needs, drives, confronting ideals, cultural myths, social lies.

Guess which one wins.
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:57 am

Satyr wrote:
Drone wrote:


i don't feel like being a father, because i don't accept the egoism of the act
Ah, Cioran!
Quote :

i try to imagine my son feeling as lost in this world as i have always felt, and i'm too sensitive to submit a defenseless child to this.
Bu then the wonderful sensation of discovery when one is found.

I've never felt lost...I've felt different.

If others are found. What is lost about you?

If others feel the same; what is different about you?

Supposing everyone felt lost or different but acted in a way that suggested otherwise?

So. Here we all could be feeling one way and acting another.

I act like I believe in (the teachings of) Jesus/mohammed/Buddha but I don't really. Is it safe to tell anyone!!??

Bloody dangerous emotions. They lead into precariously deep waters, don't they? Question is can I swim or will I sink?
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:07 am

maryshelley wrote:


If others are found. What is lost about you?
Nothing.

Quote :
If others feel the same; what is different about you?
That I say it.

Quote :
Supposing everyone felt lost or different but acted in a way that suggested otherwise?
Isn't that the human condition?

Quote :
So. Here we all could be feeling one way and acting another.
Isn't that my point?

My mistake, I spoke too honestly.

This ends tomorrow.

Quote :
I act like I believe in (the teachings of) Jesus/mohammed/Buddha but I don't really. Is it safe to tell anyone!!??
From all indications, it still is not.
You could have been burned at the stake, in the past, but today you might have retards attempting to dismiss you away by seeking out your secret weaknesses and your "real" motives.

They might accuse you of hating God or fearing Him or wanting to feel superior to Him.
They think this proves Him.

Quote :
Bloody dangerous emotions. They lead into precariously deep waters, don't they? Question is can I swim or will I sink?
No, emotions lead to prescribed, genetic reactions...reason leads to the abyss you fear.
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:31 am

Satyr wrote:
maryshelley wrote:


If others are found. What is lost about you?
Nothing.

Quote :
If others feel the same; what is different about you?
That I say it.

Quote :
Supposing everyone felt lost or different but acted in a way that suggested otherwise?
Isn't that the human condition?

Quote :
So. Here we all could be feeling one way and acting another.
Isn't that my point?

My mistake, I spoke too honestly.

This ends tomorrow.

Quote :
I act like I believe in (the teachings of) Jesus/mohammed/Buddha but I don't really. Is it safe to tell anyone!!??
From all indications, it still is not.
You could have been burned at the stake, in the past, but today you might have retards attempting to dismiss you away by seeking out your secret weaknesses and your "real" motives.

They might accuse you of hating God or fearing Him or wanting to feel superior to Him.
They think this proves Him.

Quote :
Bloody dangerous emotions. They lead into precariously deep waters, don't they? Question is can I swim or will I sink?

No, emotions lead to prescribed, genetic reactions...reason leads to the abyss you fear.

I say I feel different; therefore I am.

Go figure.
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:53 am

Satyr wrote:
Ah, Cioran!

no

i thought the same way before i knew him. we just agree on this point.

Quote :

Bu then the wonderful sensation of discovery when one is found.

I've never felt lost...I've felt different.

yes, but pic your son, try to think of him instead of thinking in the satisfaction he offers you...

would you tell him that he was just an object for you? and if you ever get frustrated with him, would he be to blame?

Quote :
But they do act the same.
Civilization. Forced conformity to a rule of conduct.
Civility.
Enforced respect.

i was refering specifically to the procreation thing.

for instance, you decided to be a father when you were 40, right? i don't and can't blame you for that, i know not everybody would see a point in this 'pessimist' opinion of mine about children...

Quote :
Then you have yet to overcome him and forgive him....I did so while he was still alive.

but i HAVE already forgiven him. as i said, i do not blame him anymore, it was the situations of his life that forced him to act the way he did

he never was a strong man, he found in alcohol a liberation from his own inner misery. like many people still do.

in reality, he was a miserable, cowardly man.

Quote :
Hasn't every boy?

For me it was more difficult being an only child.

But slowly my mind opened up possibilities to me.
I matured and began to see...details.
It all began to make sense to me....they began to make sense.
Doesn't mean I liked what I saw, only that I understood.

I began being indifferent, as all understanding is a form of overcoming.

Ironically, this turned into the game that it was.

i guess that's basically what a man must learn in life: indifference towards women's idiossincrasies.

i'm pretty aware of what the 'game' is reduced to. maybe i myself want to kid myself into thinking that i don't. ever watched romantic movies with a girlfriend?

Quote :
But many of them DO understand what you want from them.
Women intuit things. The get things viscerally.
They may not be able to tell you what over why, like a man can, but they sense things.

many do understand it, not all

i would even say that the absolute majority of them are still romantic about it. it's their nature.

and i like them this way. i can't stand women who are vulgar and base all the time.

Quote :
Isn't it all different types of lust?

yes, but in a woman's mind it's not like that

there's a natural limit to the amount of vulgarity and sincerity they can bear

i could mention your own dealings with them on these boards. don't you feel ashamed sometimes when you feel FORCED to be agressive with them?

Quote :
In that you believe that actions must be purified from self....made self-less, erase the ego from them...

This is an act of deferment.
It is sometimes sensed as a broadening of self...an unburdening.
A transcendental experience associated with God or spirit and all that.

It is the abstraction of love or self or the idea of Man as spirit or deity. The ideal man.
So, love or any action is purified of ego, of self, because children are taught that these are vile things.

Empathy automatically means compassion.
Love, automatically mean selfless love...."authentic" love. Not love as my love, the expression, the need of I, but an abstracted, clean selfless, egoless love. Not mine at all...a right....or my duty to the ideal.

This is why it fails. It is delusional, self-hypocritical.

i do not think that i want to free myself from my own egoistic desires, not free teh world from it

i don't think i could ever accomplish that.

i always refer to some SPECIFIC situations. In the case of a son, or when i'm 'defending' compassion towards others, i'm not really implying that people SHOULDN'T have children, or SHOULD be compassionate. i'm describing the way i feel, my own peculiar inclinations. it's not a moral imperative, i don't tell what others shall do

Quote :
If he is then I'll do it my self.

wouldn't you feel ashamed of humiliating your son even knowing you're responsible for his existence?


Quote :

That is not a problem for me.
I separate my desires, my hopes, from my insights into reality.

In fact if these insights are too good to be true, I am more skeptical about them.

that's what i'd like to do too, in fact, i'm always saying that i do it.

i know that my personal feelings and emotions are not arguments in themselves. they are just a part of my psyche, like my intellectual faculties.

Quote :
And I do not consider all men my fellows.

I sympathize with the plight of a mountain goat being attacked by wolves...And?[

i know that sympathy doesn't change anything, and it isn't really supposed to.

but if you really sympathize with other's pain, you know that it's inevitable.

we're not emotionless machines, not anymore.

Quote :
Yes, because we all depend on the same thing, the same system, and so we must abide by its rules, its rule.

This creates uniformity, to varying degrees.

In my essay The Feminization of Mankind....which I am presently, once more, rewriting...I describe a particular form of uniformity, produced by social dependence.

as a matter of fact, i also think that uniformity is suffocating and frustrating.

my thought is always that at this present moment of our history, we can't really get rid of it

human history has lead us to this point, and it couldn't have happened otherwise.

Quote :
Most individuals are not as unique and difficult to figure out as they would like to think.
Why?

Because most have accepted this rule, these rules, abide by them, to the extent that most cannot even think outside of them, and so they behave and think is uniform ways....this manifests in slight differentiations where the will, reacts differently to this dominating external will, but resistance is slowly eradicated...we call this maturing.

i know that truly unique individuals are monstrous exceptions. that's what makes them...interesting and extraordinary. They show us everything we would like to be if we had the strenght, the capacity or the courage required.


Quote :
Schopenhauer was sensitive?

Shit, that dude was even more straightforward.

his compassion was a sign of sensitivity.

he knew what reality was, and yet he didn't find men guilty of anything.

he forgave them.

Quote :
Nietzsche used poetics to mask a lot of the crudeness in his insights.

i know

he himself couldn't stand his own crudity sometimes.

Quote :


In the case of Nietzsche, he even predicted this would happen with his own views, and when he spoke he spoke over those that would become his followers and idolize him.

He left hints...like urging those that truly understood him to do violence to his ideas.

i think we already do it when we understand that his perspectives were not absolute, and that he hadn't the last word on anything...


maryshelley wrote:



I am reminding you not to fall in the old philosophical thought trap of assuming there are no black swans as all those you've ever witnessed are white.

i know that not all women are naive and emotional, that's just the rule.

Quote :
I wonder why a 'genuine bitch' gives you real pleasure and a not-so-genuine one doesn't. You lying stud, you.

genuine bitches face sex as what it is

they know pleasure is everything it's about with them. no real conversation or explanation needed. just lust.

now let me go and tell my girlfriend that i just want sex with her...

Quote :
As for prostitutes. How would you or I know what they think? If I were to speculate though I'm not sure they are romantics although they may 'dress it up' for your sake....

i have already made a prostitute cry when i told her the 'raw' truth about her 'situation'...

it's not that they're 'romantics'. however, they're generally ashamed of their 'job', especially when someone remembers them what it consists of...


Maryshelley wrote:
The fact that drone was lying to these birds suggests the 'release' or social option. He did it just because he could. He appears to want a 'soul' (gene) mate. The old romantic. Or he was lying to himself about his selfish genes (go fuck, go fuck)....

But yes we do seek out fitness of one sort or another.

me, a romantic soul

who could imagine... lol!

are you an emotionless bitch, mary?
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:00 am

Satyr wrote:


How one can say "I love you." and then cheat on you or beat eh shit out of you.

This is the conflict of meme with gene.

Natural inclinations, instincts, needs, drives, confronting ideals, cultural myths, social lies.

Guess which one wins.

When the lie is exposed by the beating or the cheating; walking away is the winning.

If one knows (suspects?) and accepts that 'I love you' is a loaded statement designed to make the best of reproductive or other urges; well then; that's life, surely?

'I love you'
'Yes so do I.' (love myself enough to seek you out he, he, he).

Should we say instead?

"I feel as though I love you but my emotions have gotten the better of me (again!) and all I'm really saying is that reproductively speaking you smell fantastic and I'm sure our genes will make sweet music together. In the meantime pucker up."

Hmm. Perhaps we just shouldn't say anything at all.


"For god's sake hold thy tongue and let me love...." ????

******* metaphysics.

The Canonization

By John Donne


For God's sake hold your tongue, and let me love,
Or chide my palsy, or my gout,
My five grey hairs, or ruin'd fortune flout,
With wealth your state, your mind with arts improve,
Take you a course, get you a place,
Observe his Honour, or his Grace,
Or the King's real, or his stamped face
Contemplate, what you will, approve,
So you will let me love.


Alas, alas, who's injur'd by my love?
What merchant's ships have my sighs drown'd?
Who says my tears have overflow'd his ground?
When did my colds a forward spring remove?
When did the heats which my veins fill
Add one more to the plaguy bill?
Soldiers find wars, and lawyers find out still
Litigious men, which quarrels move,
Though she and I do love.


Call us what you will, we are made such by love;
Call her one, me another fly,
We'are tapers too, and at our own cost die,
And we in us find the'eagle and the dove.
The phœnix riddle hath more wit
By us; we two being one, are it.
So, to one neutral thing both sexes fit,
We die and rise the same, and prove
Mysterious by this love.


We can die by it, if not live by love,
And if unfit for tombs and hearse
Our legend be, it will be fit for verse;
And if no piece of chronicle we prove,
We'll build in sonnets pretty rooms;
As well a well-wrought urn becomes
The greatest ashes, as half-acre tombs,
And by these hymns all shall approve
Us canoniz'd for love;


And thus invoke us: "You, whom reverend love
Made one another's hermitage;
You, to whom love was peace, that now is rage;
Who did the whole world's soul contract, and drove
Into the glasses of your eyes
(So made such mirrors, and such spies,
That they did all to you epitomize)
Countries, towns, courts: beg from above
A pattern of your love!"
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:20 am

Drone wrote:
[

i would even say that the absolute majority of them are still romantic about it. it's their nature.


i could mention your own dealings with them on these boards. don't you feel ashamed sometimes when you feel FORCED to be agressive with them?

we're not emotionless machines, not anymore.

i know that not all women are naive and emotional, that's just the rule.
genuine bitches face sex as what it is

they know pleasure is everything it's about with them. no real conversation or explanation needed. just lust.

now let me go and tell my girlfriend that i just want sex with her...


i have already made a prostitute cry when i told her the 'raw' truth about her 'situation'...

it's not that they're 'romantics'. however, they're generally ashamed of their 'job', especially when someone remembers them what it consists of...

me, a romantic soul

who could imagine... lol!

are you an emotionless bitch, mary?


Look closely at your own statements here again. Then talk to me again about how emotional women are. As satyr rightly points out there's a lot of conditioning going on to which we are all susceptible. Not just the females, mind.

I am certainly not an emotionless bitch. Sometimes I can be a bit of a cunt though.

A good, hard fuck can be a darn fine thing but so can a laying on of hands; a click; a speschul moment. I would want to experience all of them at some point and value them for what they are. Adding children to this mix alters the dimensions and the reasoning 'for the sake of the children'.
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:34 am

Drone wrote:


no

i thought the same way before i knew him. we just agree on this point.
Do you think this could be a result of some deep hatred for life?
You not wanting to relive life, through your son.
Him being a part of you.

Quote :
yes, but pic your son, try to think of him instead of thinking in the satisfaction he offers you...

would you tell him that he was just an object for you? and if you ever get frustrated with him, would he be to blame?
I owe it to him to tell him the truth.

The truth is what it is.
If he cannot deal with it, then so be it.
He will find out, on his own.

Quote :
i was refering specifically to the procreation thing.

for instance, you decided to be a father when you were 40, right? i don't and can't blame you for that, i know not everybody would see a point in this 'pessimist' opinion of mine about children...
I thought I was the pessimist?

Only shows that some people just don't see where I'm coming from.

Quote :
but i HAVE already forgiven him. as i said, i do not blame him anymore, it was the situations of his life that forced him to act the way he did
Then you blame the situation.

It doesn't seem like you have forgiven him compeltely, because you then do not want o risk being like him.

Quote :
he never was a strong man, he found in alcohol a liberation from his own inner misery. like many people still do.
Then you haven't forgiven him his weakness.

Quote :
in reality, he was a miserable, cowardly man.
A lot of hate there.
A lot of resentment.

Quote :
i guess that's basically what a man must learn in life: indifference towards women's idiossincrasies.
Let us forget women, for now.

Let's broaden the horizon.

Indifference is a product of power.strength....freedom, is another word that applies....as in choice.

I become indifferent to the specific, because I have access to many other options to satisfy my need.

Here need is a given weakness, as what makes life even possible.
Like I've said need and life are tautologies.
The sensation of existing.

So, power is a measurment of indifference towards the specific, as it is forced upon you as a necessity to continue living.

Quote :
i'm pretty aware of what the 'game' is reduced to. maybe i myself want to kid myself into thinking that i don't. ever watched romantic movies with a girlfriend?
Yes....and alone, in the past...I was a softy.

I still cry at certain movies.

Quote :
many do understand it, not all

i would even say that the absolute majority of them are still romantic about it. it's their nature.
Yes, but more than this it ruins the illusion that makes it all the more powerful....and "pure".

Like watching a movie and being told how the stunts were done and how the shots were set up.

The emotinoal mind wants to escape in the sensation, not think about it rationally, deconstruct it, understand it....but surrender to the feeling.

Is this not what wonderer, the effeminate male, fights for?
He doesn't want to know it, cotnrol it, see it....because that ruins the enjoyment of it.

Quote :
and i like them this way. i can't stand women who are vulgar and base all the time.
Me neither...but modern females have lost their femininity by trying to be symbolically males....like makes have become.
Caricatures.
Quote :

yes, but in a woman's mind it's not like that

there's a natural limit to the amount of vulgarity and sincerity they can bear
Not only women, children and weak males.

Quote :
i could mention your own dealings with them on these boards. don't you feel ashamed sometimes when you feel FORCED to be agressive with them?
No, I sometimes feel like I'm wasting my time for nothing.

But this will change, starting tomorrow.

I posted somehting on it on my Blog.

Quote :
i do not think that i want to free myself from my own egoistic desires, not free teh world from it

i don't think i could ever accomplish that.

i always refer to some SPECIFIC situations. In the case of a son, or when i'm 'defending' compassion towards others, i'm not really implying that people SHOULDN'T have children, or SHOULD be compassionate. i'm describing the way i feel, my own peculiar inclinations. it's not a moral imperative, i don't tell what others shall do
Are you not interested in getting into the other's mind and being able to manipulate it?
not change it...but know it.


When I was a teenager I got fascinated with grifters, how they can make another give them whatever they want and then leave as if nothing had happened, or profiles, to be able to look art someone and see their inner essence, even the parts they cannot see.
To know someone more intimately than they know themselves.

Quote :
wouldn't you feel ashamed of humiliating your son even knowing you're responsible for his existence?
Only if I were ashamed of my own existence.

Shall I feel ashamed for being human?
No, this is Christian.

Cioran didn't even understand Nietzsche, whom he supposedly was influenced by.

Quote :
that's what i'd like to do too, in fact, i'm always saying that i do it.

i know that my personal feelings and emotions are not arguments in themselves. they are just a part of my psyche, like my intellectual faculties.
Then learn to separate your emotions from your reasoning.

Like I said to the retard, reality is neither good or bad, pessimistic or optimistic, your reaction to it is what makes it so.

If i provide a rational train of thuoght explanation a common phenomenon/experience, and the other thinks me a pessimist, then that's their emotional reaction to my opinions.
It says nothing about the opinions themselves.

Quote :
i know that sympathy doesn't change anything, and it isn't really supposed to.

but if you really sympathize with other's pain, you know that it's inevitable.

we're not emotionless machines, not anymore.
When you pity another, you pity yourself through him.

Quote :
as a matter of fact, i also think that uniformity is suffocating and frustrating.

my thought is always that at this present moment of our history, we can't really get rid of it

human history has lead us to this point, and it couldn't have happened otherwise.
The absence of frontiers makes all the difference.

Quote :
i know that truly unique individuals are monstrous exceptions. that's what makes them...interesting and extraordinary. They show us everything we would like to be if we had the strenght, the capacity or the courage required.
I read them daily.

Quote :
his compassion was a sign of sensitivity.

he knew what reality was, and yet he didn't find men guilty of anything.

he forgave them.
yes...because when you understand something you know that it is in its nature to be as it is; you've also made it nonthreatening to you...you've overcome....you are becomnig indifferent to the specific because the type is known to you.

If I know how a bear behaves and why, I will not hate it for attacking me....and wanting to feed on me....that's what bears do.
By understanding the type, called bear, I can avoid its threat and become indifferent to the specific bear.

Quote :
i know

he himself couldn't stand his own crudity sometimes.
Yet, did he not hug the horse that was being beaten, before he collapsed?

To see, requires a sensitive eye, but how long can you bare seeing what others are blind to?

Quote :
i think we already do it when we understand that his perspectives were not absolute, and that he hadn't the last word on anything...
all opinions are comparisons to the real and to another's opinions in reference to the real.

Quote :

genuine bitches face sex as what it is

they know pleasure is everything it's about with them. no real conversation or explanation needed. just lust.
also because sex has ceased being important...no consequence...they can prevent a pregnancy that would put a curb on their promiscuity.

Quote :
now let me go and tell my girlfriend that i just want sex with her...
Take pictures.

Quote :
i have already made a prostitute cry when i told her the 'raw' truth about her 'situation'...

it's not that they're 'romantics'. however, they're generally ashamed of their 'job', especially when someone remembers them what it consists of...
like I said the difference between a whore and a lady is the price...they are ashamed of how cheap their sexual favors are.

Now I'm off to watch a DVD of the last James Bond flick.

Back in an hour or two.
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:37 am

maryshelley wrote:
Satyr wrote:


How one can say "I love you." and then cheat on you or beat eh shit out of you.

This is the conflict of meme with gene.

Natural inclinations, instincts, needs, drives, confronting ideals, cultural myths, social lies.

Guess which one wins.

When the lie is exposed by the beating or the cheating; walking away is the winning.

If one knows (suspects?) and accepts that 'I love you' is a loaded statement designed to make the best of reproductive or other urges; well then; that's life, surely?

'I love you'
'Yes so do I.' (love myself enough to seek you out he, he, he).

Should we say instead?

"I feel as though I love you but my emotions have gotten the better of me (again!) and all I'm really saying is that reproductively speaking you smell fantastic and I'm sure our genes will make sweet music together. In the meantime pucker up."

Hmm. Perhaps we just shouldn't say anything at all.


"For god's sake hold thy tongue and let me love...." ????

******* metaphysics.

The Canonization

By John Donne


For God's sake hold your tongue, and let me love,
Or chide my palsy, or my gout,
My five grey hairs, or ruin'd fortune flout,
With wealth your state, your mind with arts improve,
Take you a course, get you a place,
Observe his Honour, or his Grace,
Or the King's real, or his stamped face
Contemplate, what you will, approve,
So you will let me love.


Alas, alas, who's injur'd by my love?
What merchant's ships have my sighs drown'd?
Who says my tears have overflow'd his ground?
When did my colds a forward spring remove?
When did the heats which my veins fill
Add one more to the plaguy bill?
Soldiers find wars, and lawyers find out still
Litigious men, which quarrels move,
Though she and I do love.


Call us what you will, we are made such by love;
Call her one, me another fly,
We'are tapers too, and at our own cost die,
And we in us find the'eagle and the dove.
The phœnix riddle hath more wit
By us; we two being one, are it.
So, to one neutral thing both sexes fit,
We die and rise the same, and prove
Mysterious by this love.


We can die by it, if not live by love,
And if unfit for tombs and hearse
Our legend be, it will be fit for verse;
And if no piece of chronicle we prove,
We'll build in sonnets pretty rooms;
As well a well-wrought urn becomes
The greatest ashes, as half-acre tombs,
And by these hymns all shall approve
Us canoniz'd for love;


And thus invoke us: "You, whom reverend love
Made one another's hermitage;
You, to whom love was peace, that now is rage;
Who did the whole world's soul contract, and drove
Into the glasses of your eyes
(So made such mirrors, and such spies,
That they did all to you epitomize)
Countries, towns, courts: beg from above
A pattern of your love!"
"And if I love you, what business is it of yours?" Goethe.
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:07 am

"but modern females have lost their femininity by trying to be symbolically males"

Throwing out the baby with the bath water? It's a mistake a person of any gender can make when getting to know themselves.

Woman get thee back into thy boxes that nature and man hath constructed for thee.

Inquisitor: "Recant! It is known that a woman cannot move!"

Woman: "Nonetheless she moves".
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:15 am

"
Satyr wrote:
"And if I love you, what business is it of yours?" Goethe.

Sung by a woman, written by men:

Ain't Nobody's Business if I do

Porter Grainger / Everett Robbins

There ain't nothing I ever do
Or nothing I ever say
That folks don't criticize me
But I'm going to do
Just as I want to anyway
And don't care just what people say

If I should take a notion
To jump right into the ocean
Ain't nobody's business if I do
If I go to church on Sunday
Then cabaret all day Monday
Ain't nobody's business if I do

If my man ain't got no money
And I say, "Take all of mine, Honey"
Ain't nobody's business what I do
If I give him my last nickel
And it leaves me in a pickle
Ain't nobody's business if I do

I'd rather my man would hit me
Than follow him to jump up and quit me
Ain't nobody's business if I do
I swear I won't call no copper
If I'm beat up by my papa
Ain't nobody's business if I do

Ain't nobody's business
Nobody's business
Nobody's business if I do


silly billy silly billy silly billy


"If that's love I'm a dysfunctional monkey" MS
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:03 pm

Satyr wrote:
Do you think this could be a result of some deep hatred for life?
You not wanting to relive life, through your son.
Him being a part of you.

i have often pondered that, indeed

i often thought that it wouldn't be worth it to have a son, life would or could be a burden to him, as it was for me during a long time.

nowadays i think i'm not still enraged against life, i think i have already resigned myself to it. but the son remains a step i can't take.

Quote :
I thought I was the pessimist?

Only shows that some people just don't see where I'm coming from.

i was talking about me, again.

Quote :
Then you blame the situation.

It doesn't seem like you have forgiven him compeltely, because you then do not want o risk being like him.

obviously, i AM NOT like him and DON'T WANT TO.

i see what's the situation that lead him to be and do what he was and did, and now i can avoid falling into the same trap.

for instance, i drink, but i could never become addicted to alcohol, like he was, because i know what the addiction did to him and to my mother.

i try to prove myself everyday that i'm not a failure, like i was supposed to be, given the conditions under which i was born and raised.

Quote :

Then you haven't forgiven him his weakness.

why do you keep saying that i haven't forgiven him?

do you think that i wouldn't mention my father if i had?

Quote :
A lot of hate there.
A lot of resentment.

that was the truth about him

a man just like those you like to describe, a born loser.

this is a mere description of what i think he was. there is no resentment implied or insinuated here.

the past is the past, i live the here and now.

Quote :
Let us forget women, for now.

Let's broaden the horizon.

Indifference is a product of power.strength....freedom, is another word that applies....as in choice.

I become indifferent to the specific, because I have access to many other options to satisfy my need.

Here need is a given weakness, as what makes life even possible.
Like I've said need and life are tautologies.
The sensation of existing.

So, power is a measurment of indifference towards the specific, as it is forced upon you as a necessity to continue living.

you mean that we can only be indifferent to what cannot threat, harm or hurt us...

but that's obvious, isnt' it? i won't be able to ignore something that can actually do me harm.

indifference is a tool to forget what's useless or irrelevant and to concentrate on what matters.

i bet all the 'masters' of detachment have always known this.

Quote :
Yes....and alone, in the past...I was a softy.

I still cry at certain movies.

do you see what i mean? lol!

Quote :
Yes, but more than this it ruins the illusion that makes it all the more powerful....and "pure".

Like watching a movie and being told how the stunts were done and how the shots were set up.

The emotinoal mind wants to escape in the sensation, not think about it rationally, deconstruct it, understand it....but surrender to the feeling.

Is this not what wonderer, the effeminate male, fights for?
He doesn't want to know it, cotnrol it, see it....because that ruins the enjoyment of it.

i guess most women are not generally prepared to be told these 'raw truths'...

when they are, they got scared, and become fragile and submitted.

nowadays they are exposed to such an amount of vulgarity that they are becoming to accept it as a natural aspect of their lives.

a vulgar or foul-mouthed woman is something depressing and abnormal to see, though i may feel attracted by them nonetheless.

Quote :
Me neither...but modern females have lost their femininity by trying to be symbolically males....like makes have become.
Caricatures.

i don't think it's necessarily so, women can still be as attractive and 'feminine' as they were before.

it's just that they are also conditioned by their environment, so they are continually forced to submit themselves to a determined pattern in order to be 'accepted' and 'respected'. not their guilty.

intelligence, independence, determination, personality are exceptions among women too. the few one who own these atributes scare us.

Quote :
No, I sometimes feel like I'm wasting my time for nothing.

even with females like Echo, Ingenium, Mary, Kris?


Quote :
iAre you not interested in getting into the other's mind and being able to manipulate it?
not change it...but know it.

When I was a teenager I got fascinated with grifters, how they can make another give them whatever they want and then leave as if nothing had happened, or profiles, to be able to look art someone and see their inner essence, even the parts they cannot see.
To know someone more intimately than they know themselves.

it's not that hard to know how the minds of most people work

in fact, it's everything about perpetuation and survival. the details, the idiossincrasies, the circumstances vary, and permit everyone to remai a mystery...as long as you don't find the key to his innermost feelings.

i guess it's interesting to know what people do and why they do the things they do, but there must remain some secrets and some closed doors, because human beings are too damn pathetic and miserable when they are dissected before our eyes

a need for a certain amount of pretense, vain hopes, vain expectations.

the social farce must go on.

Quote :
Only if I were ashamed of my own existence.

Shall I feel ashamed for being human?
No, this is Christian.

Cioran didn't even understand Nietzsche, whom he supposedly was influenced by.

why do you say this, again?

i guess he understood Nietzsche, he just worked with a different perspective.

Quote :
Then learn to separate your emotions from your reasoning.

Like I said to the retard, reality is neither good or bad, pessimistic or optimistic, your reaction to it is what makes it so.

If i provide a rational train of thuoght explanation a common phenomenon/experience, and the other thinks me a pessimist, then that's their emotional reaction to my opinions.
It says nothing about the opinions themselves.

i know that i must do it, i also know that i can never be a true philosopher if i don't learn it.

total neutrality and sheer indifference, however, are impossibilities for me.

Quote :
When you pity another, you pity yourself through him.

i know that pity/compassion are essentially nihilistic feelings, and that they express a distate for life.

it's my mind that works this way, i cannot avoid it, though most of the times i do succeed in being indifferent to most people around me, and can hardly stand their company.

Quote :
The absence of frontiers makes all the difference.

which absence?

you're talking about the 'virtual' world, aren't you?

Quote :
yes...because when you understand something you know that it is in its nature to be as it is; you've also made it nonthreatening to you...you've overcome....you are becomnig indifferent to the specific because the type is known to you.

If I know how a bear behaves and why, I will not hate it for attacking me....and wanting to feed on me....that's what bears do.
By understanding the type, called bear, I can avoid its threat and become indifferent to the specific bear.

then my 'feelings' of compassion towards the others are pretty justified.

Quote :
Yet, did he not hug the horse that was being beaten, before he collapsed?

To see, requires a sensitive eye, but how long can you bare seeing what others are blind to?

Nietzsche was in fact much more sensitive than many 'romantic' writers, because his knowledge and awareness were much greater, and then he could analyze with much more clarity what he had to give up in order to be what he was...

just like Schopenhauer, he had to sacrifice a certain part of his humanity because he knew much to be able to stand the company of mediocre people, i.e., of almost everyone.

in a certain sense, i think his intellect was his prison.


Quote :
like I said the difference between a whore and a lady is the price...they are ashamed of how cheap their sexual favors are.

nothwithstanding, some ones are really like Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman

their natural sensitivity protects them from the raw truth.

Sweet Mary wrote:
Look closely at your own statements here again. Then talk to me again about how emotional women are. As satyr rightly points out there's a lot of conditioning going on to which we are all susceptible. Not just the females, mind.

i'm perfectly aware of this.

Quote :
I am certainly not an emotionless bitch. Sometimes I can be a bit of a cunt though.

A good, hard fuck can be a darn fine thing but so can a laying on of hands; a click; a speschul moment. I would want to experience all of them at some point and value them for what they are. Adding children to this mix alters the dimensions and the reasoning 'for the sake of the children'.

hmm, truth be told, i like women like you... Very Happy

where do you live? Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:34 pm

Drone wrote:


i was talking about me, again.
I wasn't.

Quote :
i try to prove myself everyday that i'm not a failure, like i was supposed to be, given the conditions under which i was born and raised.
To whom do you prove yourself?

Quote :
why do you keep saying that i haven't forgiven him?

do you think that i wouldn't mention my father if i had?
Yes.

Quote :
that was the truth about him

a man just like those you like to describe, a born loser.

this is a mere description of what i think he was. there is no resentment implied or insinuated here.

the past is the past, i live the here and now.
The past is never the past...
The present is the sum of the past.

Quote :
indifference is a tool to forget what's useless or irrelevant and to concentrate on what matters.

i bet all the 'masters' of detachment have always known this.
If it is a 'tool' then it is artificial....I'm talking about really being indifferent....not pretending to be or using it as a way to cope.

Women intuitively sense the difference in men.

Quote :
intelligence, independence, determination, personality are exceptions among women too. the few one who own these atributes scare us.
They don't scare me.
But I also know that these attributes, if found in the man as well, results in conflict...a battle of wills.

Quote :
even with females like Echo, Ingenium, Mary, Kris?
Echo is too pretty for time to be wasted on her.

Ingenium is just a delusional old bat still suckling on materialism while paying lip-service to spiritual enlightenment. Religious...a typically feminine inclination.

Mary is artistic and sweet. One can forgive her much.

Krimwest, mediocre. She tries.

Quote :
it's not that hard to know how the minds of most people work
no, much more...I want to see what most embarrasses them and they are terrified of....I want to see the secrets they keep from themselves.


Quote :
why do you say this, again?

i guess he understood Nietzsche, he just worked with a different perspective.
No, Nietzsche embraced life, despite his condition, whereas Cioran with his considering fatherhood a sin, expressed a resentment for life, a Christian nihilistic hatred of self and the world.

Not the same at all.
Cioran had more in common with Schopenhauer.
Quote :

i know that i must do it, i also know that i can never be a true philosopher if i don't learn it.

total neutrality and sheer indifference, however, are impossibilities for me.
not total...no absolutes....the attempt, the towards defines you. The motive.

Quote :
which absence?

you're talking about the 'virtual' world, aren't you?
No, the actual one. The absence of accessible frontiers.

Quote :
Nietzsche was in fact much more sensitive than many 'romantic' writers, because his knowledge and awareness were much greater, and then he could analyze with much more clarity what he had to give up in order to be what he was...

just like Schopenhauer, he had to sacrifice a certain part of his humanity because he knew much to be able to stand the company of mediocre people, i.e., of almost everyone.

in a certain sense, i think his intellect was his prison.
When you see so much you are either broken by it or it makes you stronger....more able to cope and so more objective.

It's like when you see the other more clearly you are then more able to like them, without wavering by subjective surprises....more objectively.
Your perspective is more powerful because it has seen more and so it does not change as much. It is more steady.

Disillusionment, surprise, is the result of error in judgment.

When some people present their ability to change their views frequently, I'm thinknig that they are either idiots and continually making mistakes, or subjective thinkers, continually adjusting their beliefs to their changing self-interests.

A moronic cousin of me once asked, after reading my essay on feminization:

"What if you have a daughter?"
I thought to myself:
"This guy is an emotinoal, subjective thinker. He thinks reality changes once personal circumstances change and that the truth has to be adjusted for it."
As if reality changes every time our niterests do.

This exposed him as a mind that formulates opinions around what benefits him.
If a truth in too hurtful to him, then it must not be spoken of or even admitted.

THAT's compartmentalization.

Quote :
nothwithstanding, some ones are really like Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman

their natural sensitivity protects them from the raw truth.
But can a man take it?

Quote :

hmm, truth be told, i like women like you... Very Happy

where do you live? Twisted Evil
A good hard fuck is always good once nothing remains to be talked about.

Back to basics.
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:36 pm

maryshelley wrote:
"
Satyr wrote:
"And if I love you, what business is it of yours?" Goethe.

Sung by a woman, written by men:

Ain't Nobody's Business if I do

Porter Grainger / Everett Robbins

There ain't nothing I ever do
Or nothing I ever say
That folks don't criticize me
But I'm going to do
Just as I want to anyway
And don't care just what people say

If I should take a notion
To jump right into the ocean
Ain't nobody's business if I do
If I go to church on Sunday
Then cabaret all day Monday
Ain't nobody's business if I do

If my man ain't got no money
And I say, "Take all of mine, Honey"
Ain't nobody's business what I do
If I give him my last nickel
And it leaves me in a pickle
Ain't nobody's business if I do

I'd rather my man would hit me
Than follow him to jump up and quit me
Ain't nobody's business if I do
I swear I won't call no copper
If I'm beat up by my papa
Ain't nobody's business if I do

Ain't nobody's business
Nobody's business
Nobody's business if I do


silly billy silly billy silly billy


"If that's love I'm a dysfunctional monkey" MS
Ah, girl, after your comment on a "good hard fuck", how can I concentrate on anything else?
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:55 pm

Satyr wrote:


A good hard fuck is always good once nothing remains to be talked about.

Back to basics.

And here it is. If you are correct about the selfishness of genes shouldn't the fucking come first as it were, and then then no talking but simply walking away? Next!

passion love romance lust procreation

If there is order and reason. In what order and for what reason?
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:29 pm

maryshelley wrote:
Satyr wrote:


A good hard fuck is always good once nothing remains to be talked about.

Back to basics.

And here it is. If you are correct about the selfishness of genes shouldn't the fucking come first as it were, and then then no talking but simply walking away? Next!

passion love romance lust procreation

If there is order and reason. In what order and for what reason?
Yes, sweetie, but I'm not gonna tell you that now....I'll wait until I'm done fucking you hard.

Then again, I must want to leave the door open for some more fucking, just in case i like it and you prove to be more than just good for fucking.
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:15 pm

Satyr wrote:
The past is never the past...
The present is the sum of the past.

yes, but living the here and now, each moment in its uniqueness, we tend to forget about what has happened with us in the past.

the memory of my father occurs rarely to me nowadays. when i was 10, i thought of him frequently.

Quote :
If it is a 'tool' then it is artificial....I'm talking about really being indifferent....not pretending to be or using it as a way to cope.

Women intuitively sense the difference in men.

i guess this is a lesson i still have to learn.

that may be the reason why they still scare me sometimes.

i'm afraid of 'offending' them even when all they want from me is a moment of pleasure.

i forget that i can be just a mere object of sexual pleasure to them, as they are to me.


Quote :
They don't scare me.
But I also know that these attributes, if found in the man as well, results in conflict...a battle of wills.

there's nothing i respect more than an intelligent woman. the funniest thing is that the intelligent ones are generally less atractive than the dumb.

it's hard to find a woman who is hot and intelligent at a time.

Quote :
Echo is too pretty for time to be wasted on her.

Ingenium is just a delusional old bat still suckling on materialism while paying lip-service to spiritual enlightenment. Religious...a typically feminine inclination.

Mary is artistic and sweet. One can forgive her much.

Krimwest, mediocre. She tries.

i disagree on Kris. but i thought you liked to debate with Ingenium...

Quote :
no, much more...I want to see what most embarrasses them and they are terrified of....I want to see the secrets they keep from themselves.

or you want to force them to reveal them to you?

some are begging to, as you have already noticed.


Quote :
No, Nietzsche embraced life, despite his condition, whereas Cioran with his considering fatherhood a sin, expressed a resentment for life, a Christian nihilistic hatred of self and the world.

Not the same at all.
Cioran had more in common with Schopenhauer.

indeed, he knew it too.

it's just in this respect that Cioran disagreed with Nietzsche. He loved life too, in hiw own way. Didn't he live to the age of 84?

did you already read his last interview? he talked a lot about his real love for life there.

Btw, what do you think Schopenhauer thought about fatherhood? and Nietzsche himself?


Quote :

not total...no absolutes....the attempt, the towards defines you. The motive.

ok

Quote :
No, the actual one. The absence of accessible frontiers.

what? do you think this world is pretty good the way it is?


Quote :
When you see so much you are either broken by it or it makes you stronger....more able to cope and so more objective.

It's like when you see the other more clearly you are then more able to like them, without wavering by subjective surprises....more objectively.
Your perspective is more powerful because it has seen more and so it does not change as much. It is more steady.

Disillusionment, surprise, is the result of error in judgment.

When some people present their ability to change their views frequently, I'm thinknig that they are either idiots and continually making mistakes, or subjective thinkers, continually adjusting their beliefs to their changing self-interests.

A moronic cousin of me once asked, after reading my essay on feminization:

"What if you have a daughter?"
I thought to myself:
"This guy is an emotinoal, subjective thinker. He thinks reality changes once personal circumstances change and that the truth has to be adjusted for it."
As if reality changes every time our niterests do.

This exposed him as a mind that formulates opinions around what benefits him.
If a truth in too hurtful to him, then it must not be spoken of or even admitted.

THAT's compartmentalization.

i admit that i may fit this shoe...sometimes.

that's because i admit the precarious character of human ideas and convictions. i don't die for mine, as i have already said.

Quote :
But can a man take it?

most can't.

but they can't know that they can't accept reality as it is too.
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:30 pm

Satyr wrote:
maryshelley wrote:
Satyr wrote:


A good hard fuck is always good once nothing remains to be talked about.

Back to basics.

And here it is. If you are correct about the selfishness of genes shouldn't the fucking come first as it were, and then then no talking but simply walking away? Next!

passion love romance lust procreation

If there is order and reason. In what order and for what reason?
Yes, sweetie, but I'm not gonna tell you that now....I'll wait until I'm done fucking you hard.

Then again, I must want to leave the door open for some more fucking, just in case i like it and you prove to be more than just good for fucking.

A fuck, hard or otherwise, is only fleeting. A good hard-backed poetry book is forwever!
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:39 pm

Drone wrote:


i guess this is a lesson i still have to learn.

that may be the reason why they still scare me sometimes.

i'm afraid of 'offending' them even when all they want from me is a moment of pleasure.

i forget that i can be just a mere object of sexual pleasure to them, as they are to me.

there's nothing i respect more than an intelligent woman. the funniest thing is that the intelligent ones are generally less atractive than the dumb.

it's hard to find a woman who is hot and intelligent at a time.

Crikey you men. Whatever are women to think about you? You send out such mixed messages.


The thing to remember about the past is that it cannot be changed though some would have it revised. Amazing though how the past is able to reach into the present and have an effect. Have you noticed how something (one may think is) long forgotten can still resonate. How we can still measure where we are at against where we were at then?
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:58 pm

Drone wrote:


there's nothing i respect more than an intelligent woman. the funniest thing is that the intelligent ones are generally less atractive than the dumb.

it's hard to find a woman who is hot and intelligent at a time.
This is a definite fact.

Quote :
i disagree on Kris. but i thought you liked to debate with Ingenium...
Many of them think i enjoy it....it gives them pleasure to think it....it entertains them...NOT

Entertainment has little to do with it....don't let their words fool you.
This is what they tell themselves to hide the truth of it...
Quote :

or you want to force them to reveal them to you?

some are begging to, as you have already noticed.
That's what's funny....they all want to.

Quote :
Btw, what do you think Schopenhauer thought about fatherhood? and Nietzsche himself?
Most of this kind of philosopher, like Foucault (gay), Kierkegaard, and many many others, never even married.
It would have been too time consuming. It took away time from their ideas.

Quote :
what? do you think this world is pretty good the way it is?
Except for the frontier restriction, it is pretty good.

But I enjoy the simpler things.
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maryshelley
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:14 pm

Almost all achievers have been single minded in their persuit of knowledge. It takes a lot of hours to come up with something. Even those that were married with children were 'distracted'. Not social animals at all?
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Drone
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PostSubject: Re: Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...   Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:25 pm

maryshelley wrote:
Drone wrote:


i guess this is a lesson i still have to learn.

that may be the reason why they still scare me sometimes.

i'm afraid of 'offending' them even when all they want from me is a moment of pleasure.

i forget that i can be just a mere object of sexual pleasure to them, as they are to me.

there's nothing i respect more than an intelligent woman. the funniest thing is that the intelligent ones are generally less atractive than the dumb.

it's hard to find a woman who is hot and intelligent at a time.

Crikey you men. Whatever are women to think about you? You send out such mixed messages.


The thing to remember about the past is that it cannot be changed though some would have it revised. Amazing though how the past is able to reach into the present and have an effect. Have you noticed how something (one may think is) long forgotten can still resonate. How we can still measure where we are at against where we were at then?

I prefer to believe that i do not understand your gender that much, sweet Mary...even though MOST women are shallow and entirely predictable...

it makes things more...interesting...to me.

and so, where do you live? Twisted Evil
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