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 Why Religion?

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wonderer
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:41 pm

are you saying that either i am wrong because i am young, or that the "truths" of "god" have been around too long for me to pose a threat?

that is fallacious reasoning... argumentum ad antiquitatem...

It's an appeal to tradition...
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:45 pm

wonderer wrote:
are you saying that either i am wrong because i am young, or that the "truths" of "god" have been around too long for me to pose a threat?

that is fallacious reasoning... argumentum ad antiquitatem...

It's an appeal to tradition...
Keep pulling shit out of your ass; it still stinks.

Get back to basics kid:

Unreasonable wrote:
If it is possible in any way shape-or-form for a Word to invoke a feeling, at all, then *ALL* religious faiths are validated by logical necessity.
Reread this simple sentence at least one hundred times in repetition until it seeps through that skull of yours.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:02 pm

Unreasonable wrote:
wonderer wrote:
are you saying that either i am wrong because i am young, or that the "truths" of "god" have been around too long for me to pose a threat?

that is fallacious reasoning... argumentum ad antiquitatem...

It's an appeal to tradition...
Keep pulling shit out of your ass; it still stinks.

Get back to basics kid:
well it's true. you made an appeal to tradition.

those are the basics.

Unreasonable wrote:


Unreasonable wrote:
If it is possible in any way shape-or-form for a Word to invoke a feeling, at all, then *ALL* religious faiths are validated by logical necessity.
Reread this simple sentence at least one hundred times in repetition until it seeps through that skull of yours.

and i call it religious pragmatism.

The idea that just because the feeling exists it is validated not logically, but perhaps pragmatically.

does that seep well with you?
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:12 pm

Where am I appealing to tradition? Oh, you mean the part where you do not understand what a tradition is? Yeah, that is it...

wonderer wrote:
The idea that just because the feeling exists it is validated not logically, but perhaps pragmatically.
That is one of the stupidest statements I have heard in a very, very long time. You are just guessing.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:25 pm

are you saying because i think or feel something to be true, that justifies its truth?

by what logic?

keep calling me stupid.

calling me young is an appeal to the person and calling religion old and somehow therefore valid or accurate is an appeal to tradition.

Just because something is old and traditional doesn;t make it accurate.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:15 pm

wonderer wrote:

10) you're too lazy to formulate your own conclusions
For those of us who were not born in to the religion we have accepted, conversion to a religion takes a lot of research and thought. It is not so simple as just choosing a religion out of a raffle.
wonderer wrote:

9) you want to fit in
Fit in with who? Some of us our religious minorities. I would say that secularists have a much easier time of fitting in. As a Muslim, if I'm wearing thobe (Islamic dress), do I fit in? With a fist-long beard, do I fit in? With a kufi (the hat), do I fit in? With whom do you think religious people fit in with? Most of us are quite the opposite.
wonderer wrote:

6) you are labeled as a heretic
Why would this be a reason for it? I didn't become Muslim to get on the 'no-fly' list.
wonderer wrote:

5) you want to get rich
Do you realize that MOST religious institutions do not make millions. Only the ones you see begging for cash on television do. Most Mosques are collectively run, and many times, the Imam (like a rabbi or priest) does not even get paid. Furthermore, many Synagogues struggle to keep their head above water. Same goes for most small churches (which would indeed include MOST churches)
wonderer wrote:

4) you fear death and eternal damnation
So do most people. Death is a natural fear. If you have not ever feared death, I question how much a human you are. If you have a gun to your head, are you going to feel no fear?
wonderer wrote:

3) You want to win an election
Maybe if all religious folk were running for president. But then what about Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc., who their religion gives them less a chance of winning.
wonderer wrote:

2) you lust for pleasure (heaven)
Yes, of coarse. Why wouldn't someone? Look how many desires people have in this life. We use self-control in this life, and then we get the reward for that in the next. Do you think it's easy to be religious in Western society?
wonderer wrote:

1) You want to control people
Always has been my dream, hah
[/quote]
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:24 am

no but really, religion is just social control.

I would rather organize myself.

whether you're indoctrinated, depressed, emotionally vulnerable, or logically willing into a religion it is done for a reason. And notice that nowhere on my list did i put "to worship god".

I think most religions are absurd and arrogant claims about reality that slap logic in the face.

It usually goes "worship me, or you die, worship me and you life, worship me and you will be happy, don;t worship me and these here people will make you unhappy.

I'm waiting to be shown a path to god.

As it is the most worthwhile path is one which leads to happiness, and if religion leads there i might take that path, but still, not for logical reasons beyond my desire to be happy.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:50 am

wonderer wrote:
religion is just social control.
The Word you type is just social control. Remove your ignorance and expose your own hypocrisy.

The man who created the first Word also created the first religion. Go figure.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:26 am

wonderer wrote:
keep calling me stupid.
P.S. Your statement is stupid ≠ You are stupid. (unless of course you continue to stand by such inanities)
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:47 am

wonderer wrote:
no but really, religion is just social control.
.

Of course it is.

It sets up a standard of Absolute Goodness
There is no other way to do that.
Marx tried to make the State the standard
and look at the collapse after less than a century.
World religions have remained valid for 6000 years
You can't fool all the people all the time.

Religion is also cultural control.

The five Great Religions
define our various ethnic flavors
our customs
our tastes
our ideals
our refinements
what we hold dear to our hearts
We NEED a God as our witness
to our birth
our death
our marriage
or our lives would be meaningless

Nothing else fills all those needs
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:08 pm

We can fulfil our own 'need' for these things.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:13 pm

Unreasonable wrote:
wonderer wrote:
keep calling me stupid.
P.S. Your statement is stupid ≠ You are stupid. (unless of course you continue to stand by such inanities)

i think you're stupid...

I guess it's a stalemate huh?
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:14 pm

[quote="MagnetMan"]
wonderer wrote:
no but really, religion is just social control.
.

Of course it is.

It sets up a standard of Absolute Goodness]/quote] it sets up its own arbitrary standard.

in the bible lot offered up his daughters as a sex toy for traveling men who stayed in his house, lest they commit the sin of homosexuality.

Call what you have absolute goodness and i will come along to call it absolute ridiculousness.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:05 pm

wonderer wrote:
i think you're stupid...

I guess it's a stalemate huh?
Nope.

It's a checkmate when you cannot understand a simple one-lined statement.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:43 pm

you can't understand simple logical fallacies and the fact you haven't endeavored to explain your statement, which if i interpreted incorrectly is your fault for making it incoherent.

you can call me stupid, but that isnn't checkmate.

winning a debate doesn't happen by insulting the other person, even if you did justify your insult. at least satyr knows how to insult coherently.

You once told me that winning a debate could take place by physically dominating the opponent.

The fact that you even entertain such ideas makes for nothing but a waste of your time and mine.

continue scratching at the wall you've come to, how long will it take you to realize you have to turn back?
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:00 pm

wonderer wrote:
you can't understand simple logical fallacies
Coming from you... Laughing Laughing Laughing ...that is not saying a whole lot.


wonderer wrote:
and the fact you haven't endeavored to explain your statement,
There is no reason for me to explain my statement further when you cannot comprehend it as it stands.


wonderer wrote:
which if i interpreted incorrectly is your fault for making it incoherent.
Your ignorance is my fault? -- feminine logic. Continue to play the victim.


wonderer wrote:
you can call me stupid, but that isnn't checkmate.
Where did I call you stupid? Oh yes, this is where you put words in my mouth.


wonderer wrote:
winning a debate doesn't happen by insulting the other person, even if you did justify your insult. at least satyr knows how to insult coherently.
Your whiny sentiment is irrelevant to the point-at-hand, yes, that one you keep avoiding.


wonderer wrote:
You once told me that winning a debate could take place by physically dominating the opponent.
At that remains absolutely-true...


wonderer wrote:
The fact that you even entertain such ideas makes for nothing but a waste of your time and mine.
If you cannot understand the simplest of reasoning, then do not bother responding to my responses.

Delude yourself instead.


wonderer wrote:
continue scratching at the wall you've come to, how long will it take you to realize you have to turn back?
Emotional rhetoric.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:32 pm

Unreasonable wrote:
wonderer wrote:
you can't understand simple logical fallacies
Coming from you... Laughing Laughing Laughing ...that is not saying a whole lot.
that's an appeal to the person, which is another logical fallacy.

Unreasonable wrote:

wonderer wrote:
and the fact you haven't endeavored to explain your statement,
There is no reason for me to explain my statement further when you cannot comprehend it as it stands.
i doubt anybody can

Unreasonable wrote:

wonderer wrote:
which if i interpreted incorrectly is your fault for making it incoherent.
Your ignorance is my fault? -- feminine logic. Continue to play the victim.
now i'm an ignorant feminine victim?

i'd rather be called stupid.

Unreasonable wrote:

wonderer wrote:
you can call me stupid, but that isnn't checkmate.
Where did I call you stupid? Oh yes, this is where you put words in my mouth.

"this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard" your statement is stupid" "seep through your skull" kid"

and most recently "your ignorance" feminine logic"

I don;t care if you fail to directly call me stupid, your insults are plain as day and fussing over trivialities like you didn't technically call me stupid is you trying to delay and nit pick.

Unreasonable wrote:

wonderer wrote:
winning a debate doesn't happen by insulting the other person, even if you did justify your insult. at least satyr knows how to insult coherently.
Your whiny sentiment is irrelevant to the point-at-hand, yes, that one you keep avoiding.
you have only made an initial incoherent statement. you refuse to make any points because you say you don't need to explain yourself.
Unreasonable wrote:

wonderer wrote:
You once told me that winning a debate could take place by physically dominating the opponent.
At that remains absolutely-true...
and absolutely foolish.

if my arguments are stronger than yours i win the debate regardless of what you do to me.

Unreasonable wrote:

wonderer wrote:
The fact that you even entertain such ideas makes for nothing but a waste of your time and mine.
If you cannot understand the simplest of reasoning, then do not bother responding to my responses.

Delude yourself instead.
you cannot explain the simplest reasoning.

Unreasonable wrote:

wonderer wrote:
continue scratching at the wall you've come to, how long will it take you to realize you have to turn back?
Emotional rhetoric.
yea and you need it.

all i ever hear from you is arrogant spite filled statements.

call me young or ignorant or feminine or whatever, i don't give a shit. Until you learn that the sun doesn't shine out of your own ass you will always be incapable of having coherent debates.

you always make emotional appeals like I'm young or ignorant or you're more intelligent....

Your ivory tower is dirty...
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:36 pm

Quote :
If it is possible in any way shape-or-form for a Word to invoke a feeling, at all, then *ALL* religious faiths are validated by logical necessity.

What do words invoking feelings have to do with the validity of religious faiths?

to which logical necessity do you refer?


Communism is a word that invokes feelings, does that "validate" religious faiths?

what form of validation? How?
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:58 pm

The practice of eliminating emotional infection upon rational deliberations, is the challenge of all thinking men.

The easiest way to observe these infections is by how they fail to be integrated within a model that adheres to observable phenomena.

Simple declarations and childish games of pretense and untested arrogance, may satisfy the ego in the short-term, but in the long-term they fail to offer an advantage, and so they fail to be relevant.

Live and learn.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:15 pm

wonderer wrote:
What do words invoking feelings have to do with the validity of religious faiths?

to which logical necessity do you refer?


Communism is a word that invokes feelings, does that "validate" religious faiths?

what form of validation? How?
Satyr wrote:
The practice of eliminating emotional infection upon rational deliberations, is the challenge of all thinking men.

The easiest way to observe these infections is by how they fail to be integrated within a model that adheres to observable phenomena.

Simple declarations and childish games of pretense and untested arrogance, may satisfy the ego in the short-term, but in the long-term they fail to offer an advantage, and so they fail to be relevant.

Live and learn.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:32 pm

Satyr, why do you bother...

RU, you should realize that you are the one making statements.

If you want to talk about your original statement, i have asked many questions you refuse to answer.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:01 pm

I'm not going to answer your questions until you accept my premise.

You have already-proven that you are not willing to listen to anything I have to say.

You have not listened to anything I have said.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:45 pm

i guess not because i dont know what your premise is.

What is your premise?
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:53 pm

If words can elicit emotions, then religious sentiments (i.e. Faiths) are logically-validated by necessity.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Religion?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:48 pm

I don't understand how a word "eliciting" (causing or initiating) emotions (arbitrary reactions) validates religious emotions, sentiments, or faiths.

Please elucidate.
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