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 Urolagnia, transcript, and dread model of fetish and phobia

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PostSubject: Urolagnia, transcript, and dread model of fetish and phobia   Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:44 am

Urolagnia, transcript, and dread model of fetish and phobia




i

"What exactly is a sexual fetish? I'm really curious as to how they develop.

It seems that everybody has some sort of a fetish, with some being more complex and specific than others.

I have one that might be categorized as rather strange, which I will not go into detail about, but I must say that it doesn't seem to have developed by any logical process."

-chat room


I'd rather you did go into detail. Great detail. Venus in Furs was maybe 90 pages, and it gave us only the vaguest taste for Mr. Sacher-Masoch's fetish. I would love nothing more than to explore this with you.


ii

"I hope that by learning of what I like, you won't hold any less of an opinion of me than you currently do. I've always cared what people think of me, for some reason.

For as long as I can remember, from the time I was about 2 years old, I've always been fascinated with seeing girls pee their pants. I would always look at girls I saw on TV and wonder if they ever did that. As I began to mature, I began to get feelings one might categorize as sexual when I thought of this. When I became a teenager, these feelings had evolved into a full-blown fetish. I couldn't explain or even fathom why I found the act of a girl wetting her pants to be so irresistible to me, but I accepted it. Naturally I would question the nature of this, and also I would wonder about my sanity, until I discovered that other people have this exact same fetish.

I'd be grateful if you'd explore the nature of fetishes with me and help me to formulate a theory."


These are the things that first came to mind:

  • Loss of control, humiliation

  • Genitals

  • How would this fetish expand into a fantasy, what is it's ultimate extension in a vacuum?

  • What is her reaction to peeing herself?

  • Golden shower is also a turn on?

When I search Google for "pee fetish," the very first site to come up is: "THE DOMINATION GUIDE - Pee Fetish". This is not at all a surprise to me, it was my first thought about the subject.

I would be very interested if you could fill in this question:

"How would this fetish expand into a fantasy, what is it's ultimate extension in a vacuum?"

Looking through the first few pages and sites on Google and also Google Images I see a few images described exactly as per your description above of the woman peeing her pants. The bulk of the material seems to be either simply a woman peeing, a woman peeing on another woman, or a man (NB: with erection) peeing on a woman, sometimes after he (or they) has ejaculated on her.

I would see a pee fetish as a sort of humiliation or sadistic fetish. Telling a woman that she can not pee and having that authority over her would obviously be a sort of control, maybe not all together different from just classic bondage.

I am not interested in any form of peeing. Although I do not find it disgusting. I have very occasionally imagined peeing on a woman, but have never done it.

From Google I see a lot of overlap between peeing and bondage and oral fetish. When I search for "pee her pants," clearly the women peeing their pants are sex objects: beautiful, young, blonde and so on. Also I see embarassing images of celebrities and drunken people who have peed their pants. Again this brings to mind very classic fetish S&M ideas about humiliation.

To reiterate, it would really help to understand this question if you would elaborate on:

"How would this fetish expand into a fantasy, what is it's ultimate extension in a vacuum?"

Where are you in this? Are you a voyeur? Are you her master? Are you her? Are you peeing on her? Etc.

Here is a list of fetishes from site called Fetish Bank:

BRUNETTE, REDHEAD, BLONDE, TEEN BABES, MATURE BABES, IN GLASSES, BIG & HUGE TITS, SMALL TITS, EXHIBITIONISM, ASS & BUTTS, PANTIES, VOYEUR, RUSSIANS, EBONY, LATINAS, ASIAN GIRLS, INDIAN GIRLS, HIGH HEELS & BOOTS, LEGS, PANTYHOSE, SEXY LINGERIE, UNIFORM FETISH, NAIL FETISH, SPORTGIRLS, BALLOON SEX, SLEEPING FETISH, OUTDOOR, FOOD FETISH, WET & MESSY, WRESTLING, SMOKING SEX, FOOT FETISH, HAIR FETISH, INFANTILISM, LESBIAN, BISEXUALS, GAY, DILDO & OBJECT INSERTION, TRAMPLING SEX, BONDAGE, FEMALE DOM, FEMINIZATION, MALE DOMINATION, STRAPON, SMOTHERING & FACE SITTING, PVC AND LATEX, BBW, PIERCINGS, TATTOOS, ART, SPANKING, GOTHIC, TICKLING, LEATHER FETISH, CLOSE UP, TRANSVESTITE, INTERRACIAL, GROUP SEX, ANAL SEX, ORAL ACTION, CUMSHOTS, BIG COCKS, SHAVED GIRLS, SEX WITH MIDGETS, VINTAGE, PREGNANT GIRLS, MILK SEX, DRUNK SEX, HENTAI, ALIEN SEX, FANTASY RAPE, FISTING SEX, MEDICAL FETISH, FAT WOMEN, UGLY GIRLS, MENSTRUAL, OLD WOMEN, PEE, POO, ENEMA, FART, SQUIRTING, TIT PAIN, SPIT, DOUBLE PENETRATION SEX

Fetish is a more exhastive topic than the list above; "rainbow showers," incest, furries, braces, CFNM, candaulism aquaphilia/hydrophilia, water torture, unbirth, endosomatophilia, vorarephilia, abasiophilia, bestiality and so on and so on are not even mentioned by Fetish Bank.

Wikipedia calls pee fetish Urolagnia. The minds at Wikipedia seem to have tread over much the same ground that we already have,

"People with urolagnia often like to urinate in public, or urinate on, or be urinated on by other people, and may drink the urine. The consumption of urine is urophagia. Some like to watch others doing these things. These activities are often described by the euphemisms "golden showers" or "watersports."

As a paraphilia, urine may be consumed or the person may bathe oneself in it. Other variations include arousal from wetting or seeing someone else wet their pants or underclothes, or wetting the bed. Other forms of urolagnia may involve a tendency to be sexually aroused by smelling urine soaked clothing or body parts. In many cases, a strong correlation or conditioning arises between urine smell or sight and the sexual act (so a male partner may not achieve an erection except if he smells the urine-soaked legs of his female partner, a female may not orgasm except if she urinates on herself before sex or features her partner do so in his pants). For some individuals the phenomenon may include a diaper fetish and/or arousal from infantilism. Watersports may also be used in a BDSM scene as a form of humiliation, sometimes involving desperation until incontinence or infantilization, sometimes physical humiliation associated with being urinated on or pressured to consume urine. In some cases,a person is aroused by merely staging situations where others can either witness that person wet his or her clothing or smell his or her urine scent.

Urolagnia is sometimes associated with, or confused with, a sexual attraction to someone experiencing the discomfort or pain of a full bladder, a sadomasochistic inclination."


These elements too have already seen our consideration,

"Desperation - The act of holding one's own urine until the need to urinate is urgent, making another hold in their urine, or watching another person with a urgent need to urinate. This fetish sometimes originates from childhood memories of being or of seeing another needing the restroom. Arousal may be triggered by seeing the body movements or facial expressions of that person. It can also be heightened by the person saying that they have to urinate. The arousal from being desperate comes from the pleasure of having a full bladder.

Voyeurism - Seeing another urinate without the person's knowledge either through video taping by a hidden camera, or by lurking in locations where people are urinating or are likely to have an urge to urinate.

Clothes Wetting - The person is sexually aroused by wetting ones clothing or observes another person doing so. Usually that person prefer to stage the wetting so that his or her legs (or other body parts) become totally soaked with urine.The warm sensation felt when urine trickles on body seems to be the key factor for pleasurable feelings. In many cases, that person is also aroused by smelling body parts that have a urine scent. Others get aroused by telling everyone they know about the day they lost control and peed down their legs. Some prefer a particular type of clothing to become wet.

Exhibitionism - Becoming noticeably desperate or wetting oneself with the express purpose of being seen by strangers. Practitioners have described going to public places such as a mall or a park. Some intend to create situations where others can see their wet clothings, their urine soaked legs or merely come very close to strangers to let them smell the urine aroma of their wet legs or clothing."


What sets the philosopher aside from the psychologist or novelist is that the philosopher simplifies. Where the psychologist splits hairs and spins a vast taxonomy out of urophagia, the philosopher identifies patterns, repetitions and deep sources of the multifarious phenomena. Although unpolished, this stub from Wikipedia is very philosophical,

"Endosomatophilia ... is an attraction to fantasies involving complete encapsulation of a living thing within the body of another living thing. Endosomatophilia is often an underlying factor in vorarephilia/phagophilia, unbirth, insertion fantasy, and other related fetishes.
...
[M]any vore sites host endosoma material unrelated to vorarephilia itself. Because vore fantasies often involve violence, endosomaphiles are often daunted by the overwhelming presence of vore, as opposed to other forms of endosoma.
...
Endosoma is often associated with macrophilia and microphilia, as a large size difference can facilitate bodily containment.

Currently, endosomatophilia is best known among furries...."


Last edited by Serge on Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:15 am; edited 8 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Urolagnia, transcript, and dread model of fetish and phobia   Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:44 am

iii

"I would state that I am not her master or in anyway superior to her, and I am also not her (except maybe in a sense in which I will elaborate on later), but am simply a voyeur.

Also, it is not the humilation aspect of a girl peeing her pants that turns me on.

The ideal fantasy, "in a vacuum", would be something along the lines of the following:

I am watching a girl who is clearly desperate and needs to pee. She is usually wearing denim jeans, preferably blue or black, or cotton sweatpants. She is usually alone, in the privacy of her home or some other secluded place. She makes a mention of how she will pee her pants if she doesn't get to a bathroom soon. She begins to make the gesticulations and facial expressions of someone who obviously needs to use the bathroom. This goes on for some time, usually for 30 seconds or so. Eventually she gets to the point where she simply gives in and completely wets herself right there, stopping for nothing. She has a look of ecstacy on her face. As I mentioned earlier, I could become her in the sense that I am empathetic to her relief and thus her pleasure becomes mine in a certain respect.

Another ideal fantasy would be similar to the above except that there is no desperation sequence leading up to the inevitable apex of the fantasy (wetting), but rather the girl is alone (although I have not objected to the idea of several girls wetting at once) and realizes that there is a small likelihood of her getting caught in the act of wetting her pants, and intentionally soaks her pants, with the same look of ecstacy and relief on her face.

The girl must never have any objection to the act of wetting herself in my ideal fantasy. Her wetting must happen with no suggestion or command from any other force other than her own free will. This leads me to believe that I don't have a control fetish, since a situation where a girl wets her pants as a last resort wouldn't be ideal; I think I am simply a voyeur.

As for the origin of this fetish, I could perhaps elaborate on some of my said childhood memories of my interest in this fantasy.

I remember that I used to live next to this girl who was maybe one or two years older than me, and I would play with her almost everyday. She would sometimes wet her pants so that she didn't have to go back inside while we were playing. As I was only 5 years old or so, I didn't have a concept of sexual pleasure and didn't feel this, only immense interest. I remember asking her if she was worried that her mother would see what she had done and reprimand her, but she said that she wasn't worried about it.

I think this blatant disregard for authority is what interested me; I would have never even considered disobeying my parents at that age, and I was quite impressed by her.

I mentioned in my first post that I have been interested in this fetish since I was about 2. While my first experience with the actual act was when I was about 5 years old, I do remember seeing girls on TV and wondering if they ever wet their pants. I don't think I can account for this, as there is no previous experience that might suggest my interest. One thing I find interesting about this is that it was only girls that I was interested in; to a child at that age, there usually isn't much difference between a boy and a girl besides the obvious anatomical variation."


The iconology of urinating putti in the Renaissance and Rococo canon is undoubtably "an [oceanic] expression of a person's love of release, in an orgasm-free environment." It's hard not to see an overlay of the Religious with the Sexual in Fetish. (Defensive repression against Dread?)

"The word putto is Italian singular male; the plural is putti. One never speaks of putta, which would be the female version. (That word is short for puttana, which means "slut.")"

"pit (1)
"hole," O.E. pytt "water hole, pit," from W.Gmc. *puttjaz "pool, puddle" (cf. O.E. putti, O.N. pyttr, Du. put, Ger. Pfütze), early borrowing from L. puteus "well, pit, shaft." Meaning "abode of evil spirits, hell" is attested from c.1225. The verb meaning "set against, oppose," is first recorded 1760...."


I want to take you at your word and not impress a prefabricated model of fetish onto your experience.

The following article has informed much of my recent thinking on voyeurism/exhibitionism; much of what I had previously imagined to be my own voyeuristic behaviours, I now see as a form of exhibitionism that toys with or has a "blatant disregard for authority," in particular, playing with beinging caught and punishment, ("I would have never even considered disobeying my parents at that age...").

"EXHIBITIONISM

Ever since the publication by J. W. Mohr and colleagues of their seminal Exhibitionism, 1964, exhibitionism has been recognised as a key element always present in the profile of every paedophile.

I am not speaking here of exhibitionism as you will perhaps be imagining it: a man displaying his erect penis to little boys or girls. That is what J.W. Mohr and his colleagues concentrate on.

You know how children play Chicken ? (And how appropriate the name of that game !) Small children play it by staring into each other's eyes the one who blinks or looks away first is the loser. Older children play it by standing on railway lines in front of an oncoming train and the one who jumps off last is the winner. Teens play it in cars accelerating towards each other down the central white line . . . Well, exhibitionism is their form of Chicken.

Who, then, is the opponent they are playing the game against ? Revealing just enough of themselves for someone with the knowledge to pick up the tell-tale hint but always having a ready excuse to hand ! It could be that the husband is a if his wife (and children) are in the know, against his colleagues at work. If they too are in the picture, then against society at large that lustful look or even wink at an attractive child in the supermarket ! How many adults will have seen it !

The ones who claim to feel no guilt at all are the ones most likely to be arrested. That satisfies their sense of guilt, whilst at the same time allowing them proudly to declare they've "come out" and are now active campaigners who ought to be honoured and followed !"


Perhaps there is a subtle dimension of this toying with authority in what you call being "simply a voyeur."

On the other hand, the isolation of your person from the scene of action in the fetish fantasy is saddening, a never to be realized longing. All over the world, young women must be peeing themselves at this exact moment. But I was so struck at how unrealizable this fantasy must be for you-- like the furries who can only imagine their fetish-- there are no animorphs.

That isolation could also be read as a Sadeian isolation, brooding from some mountainous fortress--

But most of all fetish is a gift. An ability to see a beauty and sensuality of the world, invisible to most everyone else. Sex is everywhere, but only the fetishist is able to see it.


iv

"It is a somewhat unrealizable fantasy for me.

I've told a few people about it, and some of them were disgusted with me. Interestingly, it was only the males I've told that were disgusted by it. I've told maybe 2 or 3 girls about it, and they said it was not gross, but to not expect to see them doing in anytime in the near future.

I don't know if I'm ever going to find a girl that will share this same interest with me."


I want to imagine that fetish is the mirror image of phobia: a repressing objectification of dread. Dread is everywhere, but as a specific phobia of the dark or of high places, aquious irrational dread is made into an object which can be treaded rationally and dealt with as an object is dealt with. Many phobic objects have only hardly concealed their encorporated dread: Nyctophobia and the many "dark" metaphores we use to refer to the spiritual; Altophobia fairly clearly belies the vetigo expressive of religious horror; Antlophobia and Thalassophobia can be neatly tied to the ancient deluge metaphores and to "oceanic feelings" themselves.

However, the objectification of dread is much more difficult to see in phobias such as Melophobia, Equinophobia or Parthenophobia.

Yet a similar mechanism is conceivably at work with fetish.

Years ago I read an anthology of autobiographical accounts of schizophrenia, among these stories was one titled "The Train God" about a man who had come to associate religious dread with trains. At some other time I recall reading about women who were sexually aroused by trains. A phobia of trains is called Siderodromophobia.

The relation between the original anamistic meaning of fetish and the psycho-sexual meaning is a strong one. The fetish object conjures up and has incorporated religious feelings in more or less the same way that sexual fetish has erotic feelings. At some level, both fetish and phobia are tools of objectification and repression; this is particularly the case in so far as sex is the mirror image of religiosity: Sex and Death. Or in stronger terms, Sex is a denial of Death.
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