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PostSubject: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:07 pm

"Christianity was from the beginning, essentially and fundamentally, life's nausea and disgust with life, merely concealed behind, masked by, dressed up as, faith in "another" or "better" life."

This visceral coming from a man who enjoyed all the educational benefits of a Christian culture.
Shame on him and the legions of pseudo-intellectuals who grovel at his feet. They have shredded the Scriptures, emptied the Cathedrals, stilled the psalms of congregations and sent millions of faithless zombies onto the mass production lines with no song of God to liven their hearts. And now we watch the whole edifice of a once soaring Christian culture come crashing to the ground in a pile of rubble.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:28 pm

MagnetMan wrote:
"Christianity was from the beginning, essentially and fundamentally, life's nausea and disgust with life, merely concealed behind, masked by, dressed up as, faith in "another" or "better" life."
What does this quote expose except a faith in Nothing, in Death, and in the forever-stagnant Styx & Stones?

This Nietzschean philosophy produces men like Satyr, Joker, and Aidan ... men like me.


MagnetMan wrote:
This visceral coming from a man who enjoyed all the educational benefits of a Christian culture.
I too enjoy the same benefits:

I sleep on a cushioned bed. I sit on a cushioned couch. I live a cushioned life.

How can I complain???


MagnetMan wrote:
Shame on him and the legions of pseudo-intellectuals who grovel at his feet. They have shredded the Scriptures, emptied the Cathedrals, stilled the psalms of congregations and sent millions of faithless zombies onto the mass production lines with no song of God to liven their hearts. And now we watch the whole edifice of a once soaring Christian culture come crashing to the ground in a pile of rubble.
My question to you MM: what happens next?

How do the Nietzschean boys come to learn where their failosophy will inevitably lead them...

...toward a new Hitler, toward a new Holocaust, and toward a new "Final Solution"? These boys therefore-preach "kill thyself!"
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:31 pm

Unreasonable wrote:
MagnetMan wrote:
"Christianity was from the beginning, essentially and fundamentally, life's nausea and disgust with life, merely concealed behind, masked by, dressed up as, faith in "another" or "better" life."
What does this quote expose except a faith in Nothing, in Death, and in the forever-stagnant Styx & Stones?

This Nietzschean philosophy produces men like Satyr, Joker, and Aidan ... men like me.

I see religious protest as a reactionary teenage phase in conscious development - both at the individual level and the collective. If within the family the father is over-bearingly authoritative, teenage rebellion is inevitable. (The Prodigal son gambling with his inheritance) The same thing happened at the end of the Iron Age when the Catholic Church tried to throttle scientific development. The result is that intellect has reacted against dogma. In those terms, is see Nietzsche as merely a teen who made a predictably dark analysis on ancestral wisdom - based on too narrow a world view. If he had been born in the New Age I would venture him to be more of an ontologist


MagnetMan wrote:
This visceral coming from a man who enjoyed all the educational benefits of a Christian culture.
Quote :
I too enjoy the same benefits:

I sleep on a cushioned bed. I sit on a cushioned couch. I live a cushioned life.

How can I complain???

This is why Confucius emphasized the value of ancestral reverence as an essential social ethic. It teaches us the about the long evolutionary struggle that it took to get where we are and helps us all make more gracious civic commitments


MagnetMan wrote:
Shame on him and the legions of pseudo-intellectuals who grovel at his feet. They have shredded the Scriptures, emptied the Cathedrals, stilled the psalms of congregations and sent millions of faithless zombies onto the mass production lines with no song of God to liven their hearts. And now we watch the whole edifice of a once soaring Christian culture come crashing to the ground in a pile of rubble.
Quote :
My question to you MM: what happens next?

The prodigal son must stop gambling with stocks and bonds on the temple floor of the global estate, end the insane dare to play Russian Roulette with nuclear guns and return to his Father's House. There is much work to be done, cleaning up the pollution of an Age of industrial effort and getting this planet running on perpetual motion again.

Quote :
How do the Nietzschean boys come to learn where their failosophy will inevitably lead them......toward a new Hitler, toward a new Holocaust, and toward a new "Final Solution"? These boys therefore-preach "kill thyself!"
The Laws of Cause and Effect have their way of correcting everything."Great Doubt, leads to Great Enlightenment." In the meantime talking cannot make a conversion unless there is already some question in consciousness.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:26 pm

MagnetMan wrote:
I see religious protest as a reactionary teenage phase in conscious development - both at the individual level and the collective. If within the family the father is over-bearingly authoritative, teenage rebellion is inevitable. (The Prodigal son gambling with his inheritance) The same thing happened at the end of the Iron Age when the Catholic Church tried to throttle scientific development. The result is that intellect has reacted against dogma. In those terms, is see Nietzsche as merely a teen who made a predictably dark analysis on ancestral wisdom - based on too narrow a world view. If he had been born in the New Age I would venture him to be more of an ontologist
I agree with your assessment. Furthermore, this scientific backlash has created a new "Scientology" that exists today. <- people turn the old gods into gods of science and 'fact'. (And just you forget about reasoning!) I mean, think of all the non-philosophy that occurs on ILP. Whenever you present arguments there, people demand 'evidence', 'facts', and 'statistics'. Nevermind that these things can become freely-conjured by any Philosopher worth his weight in a dialectic battle. I can pull a dozen aces/facts our of my sleeve at any given time concerning the points I make, here-or-anywhere. If people want 'facts', then they want Science, not Philosophy. Philosophy runs deeper. As far as this backlash goes, there has recently-been created a new void of Spirituality in Amerikan Non-culture. This will continue as long as Nothing is made Sacred. I entirely-fault Nietzsche and his ilk to this deviation.

There is no "if he had been" concerning Frederich Nietzsche. The truth is: he was. He is. His bones are still fresh in his grave and Amerikan rat-boys wish to pull them up and feed upon them. Nevermind what he actually-said. Nevermind that he is the Anti-Christ in his own words. I see that here & now is a dangerous time in Human History/Evolution. And few points in time exist like they do now. There is an absolute-change coming to Futurism, our Future World, that adult people --mature, honest, capable, adults, Men-- are going to decide-upon.

What kind of world shall we live in when Jesus is no longer Lord over the Master-Slave Dialect, and God has apparently-fallen from his Throne???

The Western World trembles at the thought: we are lost; we do not know where we are going next.

My theory/guess/estimation: the word of "God" changes form, and reasserts Himself from the shadows...


MagnetMan wrote:
Quote :
I too enjoy the same benefits:

I sleep on a cushioned bed. I sit on a cushioned couch. I live a cushioned life.

How can I complain???
This is why Confucius emphasized the value of ancestral reverence as an essential social ethic. It teaches us the about the long evolutionary struggle that it took to get where we are and helps us all make more gracious civic commitments
I am not familiar with Confucius, unfortunately...


MagnetMan wrote:
The prodigal son must stop gambling with stocks and bonds on the temple floor of the global estate, end the insane dare to play Russian Roulette with nuclear guns and return to his Father's House. There is much work to be done, cleaning up the pollution of an Age of industrial effort and getting this planet running on perpetual motion again.
I see that this change is occurring-rapidly within the formerly-"Free Market".

Human greed is finally running itself into a dead end. What happens after the entire world is already-conquered?

Answer: monetary value & idolatry become worthless ... endless inflation. The dollar approaches 'null'-value.

Then the shit really hits the fan...


MagnetMan wrote:
The Laws of Cause and Effect have their way of correcting everything."Great Doubt, leads to Great Enlightenment." In the meantime talking cannot make a conversion unless there is already some question in consciousness.
I imagine that the disproof against Nietzsche would be easily-made by somebody more akin to the Christian religion than I am. I-myself have been uprooted and permanently-removed from my past in that regard. I miss my Catholic Tradition immensely; it is comforting to not have to 'think' about anything after all. Thus, all it takes is one charlatan to understand the link between Nietzsche and Hitler, and Nietzsche's will fall into his grave once again. (RIP) While Nietzsche was a necessary thinker, his error was renouncing the foundation from where/whence he derived his conclusions. I don't really know though ... perhaps he was not aware of where he came from, or, the affects of what his words would do. Either way, the West has won. Sociality proved the indisputable victory versus Individuality in the 20th century.

Did Nietzsche expect tyranny and dictatorship? How can you not after you make Man into a living-god? Man submits to no-one...

And was Nietzsche a traitor to Christianity? Was he ever Christian to begin with? When you bite the hand that feeds...
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:47 pm

Unreasonable wrote:
I see that here & now is a dangerous time in Human History/Evolution. And few points in time exist like they do now. There is an absolute-change coming to Futurism, our Future World, that adult people --mature, honest, capable, adults, Men-- are going to decide-upon.

What kind of world shall we live in when Jesus is no longer Lord over the Master-Slave Dialect, and God has apparently-fallen from his Throne???

The Western World trembles at the thought: we are lost; we do not know where we are going next.

My theory/guess/estimation: the word of "God" changes form, and reasserts Himself from the shadows...

The Nuclear theory has transcended Newton's clock-work universe. It has ushered in a New Age. Birth is always bloody, painful and dangerous. If we manage to live through it and don't nuke the whole shebang, I see a more balanced position between physics and metaphysics. Quantum mechanics is already on the cutting edge of the meta-normal. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:42 pm

I have some updated information about Nietzsche, the Anti-Christ, coming soon MM...
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:48 pm

Okay MM, here we go...

1) Nietzsche is the Anti-Christ.

I do not see much doubt about that 'fact'. Upon acknowledging this as true though, many things are implied. First of all, prophetic predictions must be taken as true. This means that Christianity, I suppose, foresaw their own demise. The mythology of the Christian Apocalypse then becomes its own self-fulfilling prophecy. In essence, the Christian religion was built on its faith, but faith alone is no guarantee for success in life. A faith in thyself, or God, can only take a religious mind so far. This religiosity also needs Facts & Reason. Christianity meant to monopolize the empirical sciences, but ultimately-failed. God became divorced from its own Scientology. This is the direct result of a *FAILURE* to understand the difference between Moral truths and Empirical truths...

Regardless of how the fall came, there should be no doubt now that the fall already-has come. The Manifest Destiny of Christianity is its own will. Nietzsche is the culminating point and crux of this argument. Here is a man that tried to surpass the Post-Hellenic version of Good & Evil, based upon Christian Piety, namely, Roman Catholicism. Not ironically, Nietzsche attempted to go Beyond Good & Evil. He failed. What Nietzsche possibly did not know, or consider, is the true reach of the arm of Morality ... the notion of how far Morality digs into the history and hearts of Mankind. I am not familiar enough with Nietzsche's works to judge this however.


2) Hitler is the necessary result of Nietzsche's philosophy.

The connection between the Ubermensch and Hitler's Nazi Party should be undeinable to anybody with seeing-eyes. What the Amerikan college youth do not understand is that within their praise of Nietzsche is a praise toward Nazism. That young white boys cannot see this leads me to conclude that they are severely-biased upon their interpretations of Nietzsche's failosophy. And I do not know exactly what Nietzsche got wrong, or where, or what was his fault necessarily. Regardless, the power of Nietzsche's failosophy praises Individual Absolution. Literally, to become Uber-mensch, Super-man, mankind must separate himself fully-from Man & Beast. Without morality in the way, the Nazis were free to separate themselves in this way by separating Aryans from the Jews, first-and-foremost. And I do not even think Hitler was scapegoating the Jews. I consider what he actually-said, although I wish I knew more...

The key point here is that when Morality-in-general becomes desecrated, then Nothing *MUST BE* Sacred. And this is the current state of Morality in the West, at least, in the Amerikan Empire. So now, the time is ripe with mutative religioso powers. There is a void in Amerikan Non-culture, necessarily-speaking. Even though Christianity may be correct, right, and/or true about many Moral claims, I honestly-believe that Nietzsche's accusations against Christ were too powerful. And this is why I say that Jesus is no longer Lord over the Master-Slave Dialect. Nietzsche stole that crown, and then Hitler stole it from him. In our day & age then, Capitalism and The State (Government) rule over the West, and the East (Globalization), as the world looks to the Nuclear Power of the USA to see what we shall do next.

And what will that be? I do not know...

But I do know this! <- The State makes for the worst Lord when it comes to the Master-Slave Dialect. Amerika is now in a state of complete-Socialization. And the individual/independent nature of US, rejects this oncoming, Utopian, Communism. What is the answer? It must be a reconciliation between the Individual (Anarchist) vs the Sociality (The State). And with no Religiosity in the way, this is where things tend to become violent, bloody, and extreme. A "battle of ideas" commence. The world needs a new Ideal...
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:09 pm

Articles:

here

here

here
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:58 am

Unreasonable wrote:
Okay MM, here we go...

1) Nietzsche is the Anti-Christ.

Great post! You write with great passion.

You are absolutely right about the contaminated elitist mind-set of our young intellectuals. I have been wrestling with it for years on these forums. Their one-sided view of reality is why I call them pseudo-intellectuals to their face. But the poison has not yet seeped down into the mass psyche. I have to believe that as capitalism folds back on itself once it is under enough pressure from the starving masses, the cynical content of their world view will become apparent and the inherent goodness that defines God Consciousness will reassert itself. So take heart my friend and hope for the best.

If you don't mind I would like to transfer your post onto the Nietzsche thread at ILP and let them know who it comes from.

I would also suggest that you start your own Blog if you have not already done so. You should try and reach a wider audience.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:36 am

hello,

do you accept the participation of a dissident voice?

MagnetMan wrote:
"Christianity was from the beginning, essentially and fundamentally, life's nausea and disgust with life, merely concealed behind, masked by, dressed up as, faith in "another" or "better" life."

first off, what's essentially wrong in this statement?

Quote :
This visceral coming from a man who enjoyed all the educational benefits of a Christian culture.
Shame on him and the legions of pseudo-intellectuals who grovel at his feet. They have shredded the Scriptures, emptied the Cathedrals, stilled the psalms of congregations and sent millions of faithless zombies onto the mass production lines with no song of God to liven their hearts. And now we watch the whole edifice of a once soaring Christian culture come crashing to the ground in a pile of rubble.

according to what I know from Nietzsche, your interpretation of his work is mistaken, to say the least

Nietzche didn't want to free the masses from Christianity. Nietzsche didn't want the masses to be freed from anything. His books were directed at a selected, limited number of men.

the situation of European culture at his time disgusted him profoundly. Modern culture, and modern trends, were all repulsive in his view.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:38 am

Drone wrote:
hello,

do you accept the participation of a dissident voice?
Life would be an absolute bore without it - provided it is not discord for the stupid sake of it.

MagnetMan wrote:
"Christianity was from the beginning, essentially and fundamentally, life's nausea and disgust with life, merely concealed behind, masked by, dressed up as, faith in "another" or "better" life."

Quote :
first off, what's essentially wrong in this statement?
A gross misrepresentation of the Christ message. Jesus never dissed life. He had three pertinent things to say about it, all positive.

1. Love your neighbor
2. Render unto Caesar his due
3. Realize the God within you. (The Kingdom of Heaven is within. I and my Father are One)


[quote]
according to what I know from Nietzsche, your interpretation of his work is mistaken, to say the least


Quote :
the situation of European culture at his time disgusted him profoundly. Modern culture, and modern trends, were all repulsive in his view.

There has always been a negative side to every human action. His view was entirely one-sided. Maybe he should have visited a few Christian hospices and seen the tens of thousands of good Christians hard at working helping others.
Quote :
Nietzsche didn't want to free the masses from Christianity. Nietzsche didn't want the masses to be freed from anything. His books were directed at a selected, limited number of men.
Nietzsche was your common or garden typical pseudo-intellectual prick, cynically mistaking cleverness for wisdom. His view of human consciousness and his writing's on it were the diabolical drivels of a seriously dysfunctional teenager. The amount of damage he did is incalculable. The ignorant anti-Christ incarnate. I would suspect he went nuts when he his own conscious made him finally realized how evilly ignorant he really was and could not deal with that reality.

You are dead right about the selected minds he appealed to. Sickos just like himself. Hitler was one of them.

By far the most delusional aspect of Nietzsche's psyche was that he saw himself as a savior and seduced his readers into thinking so too. (And the anti-Christ shall appear, in the guise of the true Christ} His self-proclamation as the anti-Christ was simply a ruse in reverse psychology. It was never his own view of himself.

Oh! The great irony of it all!

But for the influence of Nietzsche and his ilk, the 20th Century and its giant strides in technology could have gone down in human history as a Golden Age - instead of one of unending war and unutterable human misery for hundreds of millions - with the possibility of an environmental and nuclear Armageddon hanging over all of us..



e
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:03 pm

MagnetMan wrote:

Life would be an absolute bore without it - provided it is not discord for the stupid sake of it.

I agree

MagnetMan wrote:

A gross misrepresentation of the Christ message. Jesus never dissed life. He had three pertinent things to say about it, all positive.

1. Love your neighbor
2. Render unto Caesar his due
3. Realize the God within you. (The Kingdom of Heaven is within. I and my Father are One)

the fact is, Nietzsche saw Jesus' message as a denial of the inherent value of this life

the Christian lives to affirm the existence of a 'truer' reality. Nietzche thought that honest men should be strong enough to accept that this reality, this life, is everything that there ever was, since Jesus and his followers never offered any valid evidence for the existence of another one, besides their blind faith, which has never been an evidence of anything


again, Nietzsche wrote for a selected number of people. He would never, never, really prevent common people from following whatever religious prophet they wanted. Common people couldn't do anything different, in his view.



Quote :

There has always been a negative side to every human action. His view was entirely one-sided. Maybe he should have visited a few Christian hospices and seen the tens of thousands of good Christians hard at working helping others.

on the contrary, Nietzche saw the Christian insistence upon compassion, pity and charity as simptons of weakness and decadence of the race.

if Christians didn't find pleasure in feeling sorry both for themselves and for everyone else, Nietzsche wouldn't despise them that much

Quote :

Nietzsche was your common or garden typical pseudo-intellectual prick, cynically mistaking cleverness for wisdom. His view of human consciousness and his writing's on it were the diabolical drivels of a seriously dysfunctional teenager. The amount of damage he did is incalculable. The ignorant anti-Christ incarnate. I would suspect he went nuts when he his own conscious made him finally realized how evilly ignorant he really was and could not deal with that reality.

I must make the question: did you ever read Nietzsche, Magnet Man?

if you did, you shouldn't be making such simplistic comments on him and his writings

you are making a big mistake when you insinuate that it was Nietzsche's insanity that made him despise Chrisitanity and develop his own perspectives on life. The validity of a man's ideas is tested by reality. If Nietzsche had declared: 'the earth goes round the sun', his going insane wouldn't change the truth of this statement

his views on Christianity need to be tested by reality too. Read what he wrote and see if Christians don't act exactly as he described. If they don't, then you may say that he was mistaken. But you'll have to understand his true perspectives first.

Quote :
You are dead right about the selected minds he appealed to. Sickos just like himself.

you did it again

please keep this in mind: a mental illness doesn't change the validity of a man's thought

Nietzsche wrote his best books when he was completely 'normal', you're being very unfair in making such arrogant and ignorant statements

Quote :
Hitler was one of them.


grand Rolling Eyes

who told you that? Unreasonable?
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:08 pm

MagnetMan wrote:


By far the most delusional aspect of Nietzsche's psyche was that he saw himself as a savior and seduced his readers into thinking so too. (And the anti-Christ shall appear, in the guise of the true Christ} His self-proclamation as the anti-Christ was simply a ruse in reverse psychology. It was never his own view of himself.

Oh! The great irony of it all!

But for the influence of Nietzsche and his ilk, the 20th Century and its giant strides in technology could have gone down in human history as a Golden Age - instead of one of unending war and unutterable human misery for hundreds of millions - with the possibility of an environmental and nuclear Armageddon hanging over all of us..

wonderful, then Nietzsche had indeed something to do with what happened to humankind in this dreadful century

please do give me a break Rolling Eyes scratch

what are your evidences, based on HIS own writings? I don't care about what others have said about him. I want to know how you came to these awful conclusions about him if you haven't obviously even read his books.

wise up, Magnet Man study study
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:14 pm

MagnetMan wrote:
If you don't mind I would like to transfer your post onto the Nietzsche thread at ILP and let them know who it comes from.
This is your thread, and I do not mind at all, of course.


MagnetMan wrote:
I would also suggest that you start your own Blog if you have not already done so. You should try and reach a wider audience.
I will consider it. Until then, this place is where I will make myself comfortable.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:22 pm

Drone wrote:

MagnetMan wrote:

A gross misrepresentation of the Christ message. Jesus never dissed life. He had three pertinent things to say about it, all positive.

1. Love your neighbor
2. Render unto Caesar his due
3. Realize the God within you. (The Kingdom of Heaven is within. I and my Father are One)

the fact is, Nietzsche saw Jesus' message as a denial of the inherent value of this life

the Christian lives to affirm the existence of a 'truer' reality.
So does the theology of every other religion of thought, including Pythagoras, Socrates and Plato. So I am to throw them all out and embrace the counter argument of one man?

Quote :
Nietzche thought that honest men should be strong enough to accept that this reality, this life, is everything that there ever was, since Jesus and his followers never offered any valid evidence for the existence of another one, besides their blind faith, which has never been an evidence of anything


Jesus thought that honest and strong men should transcend jungle law and help the weak and needy - not for them to stay weak, but to become strong themselves. In this way the strong become even stronger by living a helpful life instead of just taking a free ride on good genes they way Nietzsche urged.

Quote :
again, Nietzsche wrote for a selected number of people. He would never, never, really prevent common people from following whatever religious prophet they wanted. Common people couldn't do anything different, in his view.
The people Nietzsche wrote for are the leaders of society, the ones who influence the masses. So he wrote for everybody. His opinion that they would not follow their leaders is patently idiotic.



Quote :

There has always been a negative side to every human action. His view was entirely one-sided. Maybe he should have visited a few Christian hospices and seen the tens of thousands of good Christians hard at working helping others.

Quote :
on the contrary, Nietzche saw the Christian insistence upon compassion, pity and charity as simptons of weakness and decadence of the race.
Do you honestly believe that Hitlerite bombast? It directly contradicts the entire meaning of what it is to be humane and not an animal.

Quote :
if Christians didn't find pleasure in feeling sorry both for themselves and for everyone else, Nietzsche wouldn't despise them that much
When Christians preach that all are born into sin that does not mean they are sorry for themselves. Sin is ignorance. The message is a challenge to rise above our base self and experience the excellence. Our Psalms and hymns are not dirges - they are strident calls for the best that is in all of us.

Quote :

Nietzsche was your common or garden typical pseudo-intellectual prick, cynically mistaking cleverness for wisdom. His view of human consciousness and his writing's on it were the diabolical drivels of a seriously dysfunctional teenager. The amount of damage he did is incalculable. The ignorant anti-Christ incarnate. I would suspect he went nuts when he his own conscious made him finally realized how evilly ignorant he really was and could not deal with that reality.

Quote :
I must make the question: did you ever read Nietzsche, Magnet Man?
Did I plow though all his writings? Are you kidding me? If the summation of his philosophy on the Internet and in Encyclopedias is not accurate, then I suggest you re-write it. If yours is the same explanation you and several dozen other fans have been feeding me, let me tell you that I have already had a belly-full. It is completely indigestible.


Quote :
please keep this in mind: a mental illness doesn't change the validity of a man's thought

Nietzsche wrote his best books when he was completely 'normal', you're being very unfair in making such arrogant and ignorant statements
I never said he was insane when he wrote his works. I said he went insane AFTER he realized how vapid they were. Our great Superman was then unable to deal with his own stupidity.

Quote :
Hitler was one of them.


Quote :
grand Rolling Eyes

who told you that? Unreasonable?

Are you saying Hitter was not influence by Nietzsche? Have you read Mein Kampf?
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:42 pm

MagnetMan wrote:
So does the theology of every other religion of thought, including Pythagoras, Socrates and Plato. So I am to throw them all out and embrace the counter argument of one man?

you weren't told to embrace his argument, were you?

Nietzsche wouldn't like people to blindly accept his ideas. He didn't want fans or idolaters

I will have to remember once more that the validity of a man's arguments doesn't imply that everyone (o even anyone) will accept them as truthful or coherent. Nietzsche could be the ONLY man who ever realized what the Truth was (and he didn't believe that) and even so he could still be completely ignored by all people

in the same manner, Jesus could have been completely wrong about all the things he believed in, and be worshipped as the incarnation of Truth...


Quote :
Jesus thought that honest and strong men should transcend jungle law and help the weak and needy - not for them to stay weak, but to become strong themselves. In this way the strong become even stronger by living a helpful life instead of just taking a free ride on good genes they way Nietzsche urged.

the fact is, Nietzsche believed that the strong transcended 'jungle law' only when they were diseased,or repressed by the unnatural 'laws' of an artificial 'civilization'...

he didn't believe a strong man could avoid being strong, and he also thought that weakness could never be turned into strenght

Quote :

The people Nietzsche wrote for are the leaders of society, the ones who influence the masses. So he wrote for everybody. His opinion that they would not follow their leaders is patently idiotic.

you're mistaken again

Nietzsche didn't write for the 'leaders of society', but for men who were willing to overcome themselves. He wrote for the Freier Geister, the intellectually independent men. These people who are in control of society, and have been put their not because of their personal merits or good characteristics, but because they were 'chosen' to be the 'representatives' of the blind masses, were as despised by Nietzsche as they are despised by the men of our days who spit upon the concept of 'democracy'...

his worldview was essentially aristocratic. But aristocracy hasn't necessarily anything to do with the 'leaders of society'...



Quote :

Do you honestly believe that Hitlerite bombast? It directly contradicts the entire meaning of what it is to be humane and not an animal.

it is not a 'bombast'

it's that Nietzsche's perspective was based upon a complete refusal of the slave-morality of Christianity.The feelings and reactions that Jesus praised the most (compassion, 'love of one's enemies, pity) were all seen by him as symptoms of weakness, that men didn't accept or adopt naturally, but only when forced by a corrupted environment (like that brought about by the rise of Christianity) to see them as the 'greatest virtues'

a man who inspires pity does not deserve to exist. In fact, if you follow Nietzsche's reasoning, Jesus told men to be ashamed of their own existences...

Quote :

When Christians preach that all are born into sin that does not mean they are sorry for themselves. Sin is ignorance. The message is a challenge to rise above our base self and experience the excellence. Our Psalms and hymns are not dirges - they are strident calls for the best that is in all of us.

the Christian may have some decency and may even 'respect' himself

however, before God, he is nothing. He is less than a worm. He submits himself blindly to 'the will of God' because his mediocrity doesn't allow him to overcome himself, and to get rid of his need to worship


Quote :

Did I plow though all his writings? Are you kidding me? If the summation of his philosophy on the Internet and in Encyclopedias is not accurate, then I suggest you re-write it. If yours is the same explanation you and several dozen other fans have been feeding me, let me tell you that I have already had a belly-full. It is completely indigestible.

the summation of his writings don't do. They are often written by biased people. Always search for the author of the summation: if it's a Christian, it's obvious that Nietzsche will be portrayed as an unbalanced person. If the author is a Nazi...well,you get the picture. In case you are really interested in knowing things how they are, go and read his own words. It's not honest to talk about the works of man when all you know has come to you through prejudiced 'interpretations' and 'summations'.


Quote :

I never said he was insane when he wrote his works. I said he went insane AFTER he realized how vapid they were. Our great Superman was then unable to deal with his own stupidity.

let us pretend that you're right

Nietzsche went insane after realizing the absurdity of this ideas

now...what?

what he said about Christianity, again, must be tested by reality. Even if he himself had given up his views, they wouldn't be less accurate.

Quote :

Are you saying Hitter was not influence by Nietzsche? Have you read Mein Kampf?

no

but I didn't need to. If Hitler really read Nietzsche, then he didn't understand a thing that he read. Nietzsche despised both nationalism and anti-semitism. That's in his writings. Hitler must have ignored this part.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:13 pm

Drone wrote:
MM wrote:
Are you saying Hitter was not influence by Nietzsche? Have you read Mein Kampf?

no

but I didn't need to. If Hitler really read Nietzsche, then he didn't understand a thing that he read. Nietzsche despised both nationalism and anti-semitism. That's in his writings. Hitler must have ignored this part.
Mindless Drone,

Hitler was an intelligent man that both 1) knew what he was doing, and 2) read Nietzsche with crystal-clear-clarity ... Does it bother you to know that an appraisal of Nietzsche turns you into a Nazi, while disapproval turns you into a Christian Charlatan??? Either way, regarding WWII, Hitler lost and Christianity won. God defeated the godless heathens, yet again. God always sides with the victors of history. Is this a surprise yet??? He only sides with the winners! He is the Casino House; He rigs the game. Perhaps you should pay attention to history and take a closer look. I just find it humorous when people praise Nietzsche and hoist him up into a savior of Man. It is hilarious to me, because young white college boys have no idea what they are doing or why. If you lift the Individual up as high as you can, then you effectively-begin a very-real war. And who is prepared to pay the costs for such bloodshed, except a fucking-selfish tyrant!?!? It is not his blood to toy with!

That is a *LAUGH!* Laughing Laughing Laughing

You see, men who often praise Nietzsche hypocritically do not realize that you are sacrificing your own life for him, a dead man, a bag-of-bones. And I suppose the same could be said of Christ. What does Christianity symbolize except the teachings of Christ-as-Lord over the Master-Slave Dialectic? Yet, you think (erroneously by the way) that an amoralist has any better idea of how to handle the minds of the masses compared to a moral absolutist? I cannot even imagine to draw the links there. You are committing intellectual suicide!

Laughing

Nietzsche scored a backhanded victory ... Christianity is failing in Amerika, falling to the ground. It was supposed to happen anyway; history repeats.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:19 pm

Drone wrote:
MagnetMan wrote:
So does the theology of every other religion of thought, including Pythagoras, Socrates and Plato. So I am to throw them all out and embrace the counter argument of one man?

Quote :
you weren't told to embrace his argument, were you?
Nietzsche wouldn't like people to blindly accept his ideas. He didn't want fans or idolaters
I will have to remember once more that the validity of a man's arguments doesn't imply that everyone (o even anyone) will accept them as truthful or coherent. Nietzsche could be the ONLY man who ever realized what the Truth was (and he didn't believe that) and even so he could still be completely ignored by all people in the same manner, Jesus could have been completely wrong about all the things he believed in, and be worshipped as the incarnation of Truth...

You are blowing a lot of smoke now. You dodged the implication of my reply to your assertion about Nietzsche's stance on Christianity. I showed that he was challenging far more than just Christianity Go back and look at it again and answer it honestly this time.

Quote :
Jesus thought that honest and strong men should transcend jungle law and help the weak and needy - not for them to stay weak, but to become strong themselves. In this way the strong become even stronger by living a helpful life instead of just taking a free ride on good genes they way Nietzsche urged.

Quote :
the fact is, Nietzsche believed that the strong transcended 'jungle law' only when they were diseased,or repressed by the unnatural 'laws' of an artificial 'civilization'...

he didn't believe a strong man could avoid being strong, and he also thought that weakness could never be turned into strenght

Hitler believed that too. Personally, as a child I hated being on a team that totally outclassed its opponents. I had more fun joining the weaker side and helping them beat the shit out of the big shots. Horses for courses I guess. I despise any who think they are superior. I was raised in Africa among the poorest of the poor. Among them I saw a nobility of the human spirit that would have entirely escaped your hero.

You have actually made me feel sorry for him. I am always a sucker for a stray dog.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:48 am

i don't even know how (or why) to reply to this

you guys really need to read some Nietzsche. There are wonderful translations of his books in English. There are even online libraries that offer free translations of most of his works.

i will say it again: it's not fair to judge a man's work when you don't even know it (and this is SURELY the case of both of you). This is specially fundamental in the case of a complex and profound thinker like Nietzsche.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:39 am

Drone wrote:
i
you guys really need to read some Nietzsche. There are wonderful translations of his books in English. There are even online libraries that offer free translations of most of his works.

There is not enough time to read every book ever published. One looks at the critique and if not attracted, moves on.

Quote :
i will say it again: it's not fair to judge a man's work when you don't even know it (and this is SURELY the case of both of you). This is specially fundamental in the case of a complex and profound thinker like Nietzsche.

The critique I read was mainly a list of quotes from the great profound thinker his own self. I think it was fair and proper of me to throw the man's own words back down his throat.

"Christianity was from the beginning, essentially and fundamentally, life's nausea and disgust with life, merely concealed behind, masked by, dressed up as, faith in "another" or "better" life."


That statement alone was enough to rouse a profound sense of indignation within me. And should to anybody else who is the beneficiary of eighty generations of Christian culture. The way I was raised, one does not shit on one's own doorstep.

I am sure he had a dysfunctional infancy and I have compassion for his condition. But somebody has to clean up the stink he left behind.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:32 am

Ask questions of your indignation. They might lead you somewhere that Nietzsche could not.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:17 am

maryshelley wrote:
Ask questions of your indignation. They might lead you somewhere that Nietzsche could not.
My Dear, for the past forty years I have been walking around with a huge question mark above my head. So many side roads, which ones are worth investigating? I need ten more lives. I do know that I am definitely going where Nietzsche has been not.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:42 am

Nietzsche's path was different from yours...

it was the experiences of his life what allowed him to think the way he did

you may think you are 'right' about him, but you haven't the slightest idea.

that's probably because Nietzsche represented, I would even say incarnated a challenge to what you believe and love the most.

that is not enough to make his work invalid, especially because you cannot really refute his views. That just means that his truths/interpretations are more than you can bear.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:50 am

Drone wrote:
Nietzsche's path was different from yours...

it was the experiences of his life what allowed him to think the way he did

you may think you are 'right' about him, but you haven't the slightest idea. that's probably because Nietzsche represented, I would even say incarnated a challenge to what you believe and love the most.
I would not object against the person of Nietzsche. I never knew his person. I object to the negative influences of his outreach.

Quote :
that is not enough to make his work invalid, especially because you cannot really refute his views. That just means that his truths/interpretations are more than you can bear.

I bore the idea of being a superman through my teens and twenties and scorned all fears of death or yearnings for an after-life. It was no load. The load came afterward, when I realized how selfish and narrow and immature my world-view was. By the grace of God I saw the great Brotherhood of MAN[i] That it was on the shoulders of the untouchables that I was privy to high vision
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche, Anti-Christ   Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:30 am

Humanity is not family it is just a species of life. This world is a boot camp that makes and breaks. Each life is its own servant and master. From the lowest creature to the highest. This world is kill or be killed. Survival of the fittest means most intelligent, most adaptable, most healthiest. Allies only make a path easier to tread it does not guarantee safety.

The Nietche and Jesus should have learned this.
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