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 Humanity's Purpose II

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The Fool
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PostSubject: Humanity's Purpose II   Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:59 pm

Evolution has no direction. Humanity has no obligation towards anything or anyone.

History is without direction. There is no directional progress to fulfill.

No goal, ideal, grand destination, and utopia to fulfill.

No god, saviour, salvation or redemption come to save the masses.

Ultimately time has no direction and thus no beginning or end. ... special purpose or plan in an underlying reality having no beginning, no end.

All that exists in the universe is aimless relativity.


Last edited by The Fool on Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's Purpose II   Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:05 pm

The Fool wrote:
Evolution has no direction.
How do you know?


The Fool wrote:
Humanity has no obligation towards anything or anyone.
Are you a part of "Humanity"? Do you have obligations toward anything or anyone (including yourself)?


The Fool wrote:
History is without direction. There is no directional progress. No goal, ideal, destination, and utopia to fulfill.
Does history have a pattern, or reoccurring themes? Could you qualify such patterns to be a 'direction' if they exist?


The Fool wrote:
No god, saviour, salvation or redemption come to save the masses.
Are you pitting your mythology against all others?


The Fool wrote:
All that exists in the universe is aimless relativity.
What makes/forces/causes you say this?

Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's Purpose II   Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:18 pm

The Fool wrote:
Evolution has no direction. Humanity has no obligation towards anything or anyone.

History is without direction. There is no directional progress to fulfill.

No goal, ideal, grand destination, and utopia to fulfill.

No god, saviour, salvation or redemption come to save the masses.

Ultimately time has no direction and thus no beginning or end. ... special purpose or plan in an underlying reality having no beginning, no end.

All that exists in the universe is aimless relativity.

You seem very sure of all of this for someone who like the rest of us does not have all of the answers. This thread has taken the biggest leap into blind assumption that I have seen in a long time
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's Purpose II   Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:53 am

Not really Rhino, purpose is based soley on survival. Direction is about survival. If humanity does have one main purpose it would be survival, beyond that there really probably is not a divine purpose or universal purpose. This world is less than a molecule in the greater universe. Any purpose would be a part played that is so tiny that it could be non existant and not missed at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's Purpose II   Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:22 am

kriswest wrote:
Not really Rhino, purpose is based soley on survival. Direction is about survival. If humanity does have one main purpose it would be survival, beyond that there really probably is not a divine purpose or universal purpose. This world is less than a molecule in the greater universe. Any purpose would be a part played that is so tiny that it could be non existant and not missed at all.

My view is that the universe hold so rare a marval as life that whatever purpose there is on earth it is pretty significant. Hell purpose is created by humans. Any purpose we can find is of the upmost importance. Not something to be scoffed at
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's Purpose II   Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:47 am

Survival is pretty darned important don't you think? Why should it go beyond that?
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's Purpose II   Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:09 pm

I don't think its merely survival, since to 'survive' as with African and third world countries is a minimal.

I would argue rather its about wealth accumulation - since the 'world' seems to functioning within a Capitalist discourse.

What are your thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's Purpose II   Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:02 am

When a person is deathly ill they still struggle with their will to live. They grasp tightly to life. They do not stop.

Survival is the beginning and the end of purpose.

Wealth accumulation is a comfort, not a need.
Capitalism is a neccessary part of going past the basic survival it is about thriving and having comfort. Liesure activity is a result of capitalism ,,meaning you do not have to struggle 24/7 just to keep alive, you get to relax.
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's Purpose II   Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:07 pm

kriswest wrote:
Survival is pretty darned important don't you think? Why should it go beyond that?

I just think that it has, don't you? Yes survival is at the top of everyone's list but in developed societies this can fall by the wayside. Often death seems so distant people feel invincible. This gives people time to turn their concerns and ideas to other things, looking for purpose in other areas.
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's Purpose II   Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:04 pm

kriswest wrote:
When a person is deathly ill they still struggle with their will to live. They grasp tightly to life. They do not stop.

A 'person,' which person? That's a pretty general statement because if a 'person' has the potential to struggle in one direction they also have to potential to go in another - thus a 'person' may not struggle to live when they are 'deathly ill' they may want to die.


'Survival' - its teleological assumption, is itself a cultural construction, whereby to survive is connected with 'reality,' and thereby part social diagram of the dominant discourse. In this sense survive is not merely to survive but to exploit.

kriswest wrote:
Wealth accumulation is a comfort, not a need.

If its a comfort then why do we exploit third world nations to the point of starvation. This is where 'survival' is survival. Thus wealth accumaltion is a need because the capitalist discourse - is the central diagram of our ontology.


kriswest wrote:
Capitalism is a neccessary part of going past the basic survival it is about thriving and having comfort. Liesure activity is a result of capitalism meaning you do not have to struggle 24/7 just to keep alive, you get to relax.

Bear in mind your comfort is because of someone else's discomfort - such as third world nations. If comfort and wealth accumation were not necessary then, why would we continue to exploit?

http://forum.athousandplateaus.net/
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's Purpose II   Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:58 am

Rhino a society may have direction true, if that society has a direction then so do the individuals. Gaining status or wealth is a direction but, its purpose is for liesure, so i suppose liesure could be a direction.

We continue to exploit because no one stops it. A bully does not stop being a bully until someone stops that bully. A dominant animal uses the pack for self gain, it eats first even though it may not have made the kill, it will kill any usurpers. This is herd mentality. We humans are herd animals our specific herd comes first. Society/ countries are vast herds, the herd mentality gives the direction and the commands. Kill exploit or be exploited or killed. Territory protection and thriving is the direction. but the individual,, not so much, unless it is a solitary or almost solitary personality.
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's Purpose II   Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:42 am

The Fool wrote:
Evolution has no direction. Humanity has no obligation towards anything or anyone.

Exactly so re the direction, we can't predict future mitigating factors. The no obligation is off mark psychologically speaking. The awareness of the obligation mitigates the prospect of that thought process coming to pass.

Quote :
History is without direction. There is no directional progress to fulfill.

F, once again it's up to chance so why contemplate the loss of direction, you will find the only direction in your present.

Quote :
No goal, ideal, grand destination, and utopia to fulfill.

Yes the problem with this one is time. We get a world average of 67 years on this planet. There is a tree that gets 12,000, a clam that gets 700, and even the Galapogas tortoise gets 250, we have no time to make those ideals work and be assured that they will not regress with the next generations allotment of 67 years of the infinity available. If our life spans were longer our consciousness may well evole to unimaginable planes, but it gets shut down regularly at around 67.

Quote :
No god, saviour, salvation or redemption come to save the masses.

Aint no wrong in those words, we are on our own.

Quote :
Ultimately time has no direction and thus no beginning or end. ... special purpose or plan in an underlying reality having no beginning, no end.

Do you know the beatnicks used to say that in the 1950's, bloody teenagers and their hormones.

Quote :
All that exists in the universe is aimless relativity.

Absolutely, nailed that one to the wall.
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's Purpose II   Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:39 am

The Fool wrote:
Evolution has no direction. Humanity has no obligation towards anything or anyone.

History is without direction. There is no directional progress to fulfill.

No goal, ideal, grand destination, and utopia to fulfill.

No god, saviour, salvation or redemption come to save the masses.

Ultimately time has no direction and thus no beginning or end. ... special purpose or plan in an underlying reality having no beginning, no end.

All that exists in the universe is aimless relativity.

Though I'm inclined to agree with most of what's written here, I would say that to have certainty about the purposelessness of evolution and the meaninglessness of human life is impossible. Therefore, affirming such things as "History is without direction" sounds like dogmatism. One cannot and could never know for sure that things are like that. As far as I can see, they just seem to be so...there must always be some details that we are forgetting to take into consideration. There is always a certain arrogance in both the attitudes of the idealist and the nihilist. Though I'm naturally closer to the nihilist, I have to admit that for me the sheer purposelessness of the universe and life itself is more a belief than an undeniable fact. And I wouldn't die at a stake for any belief...I could always be wrong in the end.
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's Purpose II   Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:50 am

kriswest wrote:
Rhino a society may have direction true, if that society has a direction then so do the individuals. Gaining status or wealth is a direction but, its purpose is for liesure, so i suppose liesure could be a direction.

We continue to exploit because no one stops it. A bully does not stop being a bully until someone stops that bully. A dominant animal uses the pack for self gain, it eats first even though it may not have made the kill, it will kill any usurpers. This is herd mentality. We humans are herd animals our specific herd comes first. Society/ countries are vast herds, the herd mentality gives the direction and the commands. Kill exploit or be exploited or killed. Territory protection and thriving is the direction. but the individual,, not so much, unless it is a solitary or almost solitary personality.

Having been born in the 'exploited' part of the world, and knowing that men here are generally as greedy and ambitious as men in every other corner of the world, I know that what you're saying here is basically pure rethoric, Kris. There is no one who could ever 'stop' exploitation, because everyone on this world exploits someone else. As someone else has pointed out, the comfort that makes people in the so-called 'first world' countries so proud and arrogant has much to do with the apparently tragic social/economic condition of people in 'third world' countries, like mine. Even here, in Brazil, there are a lot of 'warriors' who pretend to fight injustice/exploitation (yes, we've got our share of Socialists and would-be Communists too...) and yet just wait their opportunity to share the fruit of economic/social exploitation. Once again, I don't blame them, because as you know the main 'purpose' in this world is survival, and everybody must find a way to survive before everything else. This being said, I don't think we're ever supposed to live in a world without exploitation, misery, poverty, famine, etc. That's because even the ones who apparently fight these things may benefit with them in one sense or another: how many people make a living out of a job in some 'politically correct' NGO today? But once again, i'm not blaming anyone here: the poor are as 'innocent' of it as the rich, as I have said before. Nobody fights human nature and wins in the end...
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's Purpose II   Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:06 am

I would not call it human nature but earth creature nature, All creatures on this earth have the same drive in one degree or another. We are no better or worse than any other creature on this planet. The amoebae germs viruses have it. they carry the heart of it all. The higher creatures just add to it.
We can no more seperate ourselves from it then any creature can but, we are the one creature that can control it. And that makes a vast difference. You can't fight it but, you can control it, if you understand it.
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