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 School bus driver makes stop at liquor store

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kriswest
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:08 am

Very Happy It could be,, everytime we make decisions we are not free, everytime we have responsibilities we are not free, when we possess something we are not free, when we have to eat, drink, or have body functions we are not free. We are kept by the physical world, limited to what we do or think. janice Joplin nailed it in her drug induced hazy song. Freedom means having nothing left to lose.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:14 am

Quote :
Why can't you wear your Hawaiin shirt they are manly. I see nothing wrong with that print.

Yet previous employers of mine have had a problem with it. That was in office work, and leaves aside the whole issue of store work, where bosses are perfectly happy to dictate what their employees wear in every detail, without suffering under the same imposition themselves.

Quote :
I agree with you about it all. I would add that our children are society.


Indeed, our children are society, and I don't want mine growing up to be employed by a bunch of half-wits who tell them what to do when it has nothing to do with the actual fulfilment of their obligations as a worker.

Quote :
I only meant that agreements are mutual, what you agree with your driver and what your driver agrees with you is fine. As long as both agree to terms and both live up to the agreed terms.

Except we do not generally personally make agreements; the buses in my area are run by a company who is contracted by the school.

What I am saying is that not all contractual terms are okay. There is a certain purview that they have, concerning the fulfilment of the actual work required, but they cannot stretch beyond that without becoming abusive.

Are you an American? If you are you may be interested in the conditions that some of the workers who produce 'Made in America' goods have, all in the name of 'contractual obligations'. In the Northern Mariana Islands they have no minimum wage and women employees are subject to forced abortions while women and children are subject to forced prostitution. They are an unincorporated territory of the United States, and as I said, the goods they produce all have 'Made in America' stamped on them.


Last edited by -Psychonaut on Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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kriswest
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:16 am

Then educate them
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:29 am

I was modifying my post when you posted that, please see the above ammendments.

You show me a non-abusive contract and I'll show you a flying pig, no amount of education will save children from the Bullshit that this society runs on, and the crap that apologists like you churn out.

The fact that someone is simple-minded enough to demand that people refrain from actions that play no part in their actual work speaks volumes about the hope in this situation.

The fact that people are dumb enough to not only accept but actually like the restrictions placed on them by the employing classes really makes me wonder.

I am guessing you are a self-employed employer?
If so, then you're a parasitic worm and to hell with you.
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kriswest
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:55 am

Laughing Well, if i were a person that took insults to heart i would just be doing nothing but insulting you at this point. Since you pretty much just thrashed me with degradation.. but, since you obviously are more than passionate about your postion i will take that into consideration. Emotions tend to make us loose our tongues.

I am very well aware of the island situation, I know people there and in D.C. working to change it. It is one of the many things we donate funds to.

I am self employed and I am not self employed. parasitic? Of course, but all living creatures are parasitic. So what is your point? You can't admit that you too are parasitic? or that you think you are an enlightened parasite, forced to be a parasite but believe you are so much better?

You send your kids on a bus knowing that you had no part in a written agreement, but by allowing your children to step on that bus, you agree to that agreement.

If i am an apologist for facing facts of life, then so be it, that is your view. then take my view of what you are. A happy victim. You prefer to be a victim, its safe. you get to validate it by complaining about the cruelities of the world. it enthralls your ego.
I may end up in hell, but by my view you already are there and reveling in it.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:10 am

Quite simply, someone who is not an employee has no basis for pontificating on what may justifiably be done to employees; you are one of the abusers, and if there's one thing abusers will always say its "Abusing people is A-Okay!"

Ordering people about gives you a hard-on, and you prefer eroticism to reason.
You accept impositions on yourself because the authority of those abusing you can be used to back up your own abuses [Or possibly you are a submissive who gains pleasure from this kind of thing? You tell me]

You want others to accept what you would not, and (possibly worse) you expect others to accept the same restrictions that you accept.

The "facts of life" are that people murder and rape children, so I assume you won't be complaining when it happens to yours?

Life is good my end and I am not 'passionate' in the way you mean; a spade is still a spade, and its not my fault if my honest opinion offends you.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:27 pm

kriswest wrote:
then take my view of what you are. A happy victim. You prefer to be a victim, its safe. you get to validate it by complaining about the cruelities of the world. it enthralls your ego.
I may end up in hell, but by my view you already are there and reveling in it.
kris!

Psychonaut wrote:
The "facts of life" are that people murder and rape children, so I assume you won't be complaining when it happens to yours?
Ladies! Don't fight!
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:41 am

I do not see how you get 'fighting' out of that comment Serge?

It is a simple philosophical argument called the Reductio Ad Absurdum (or RAA).

In the RAA we assume that our opponent is correct in their premise (in this instance that something is not to be criticised because it is a "fact of life").

The opponent seeks to use the premise to justify some particular conclusion (we cannot criticise the school board for an abusive contract, because abusive contracts are a "fact of life").

But, with RAA we examine what other conclusions are natural corollaries of the premise (Murder and rape of children are "facts of life", and hence not to be criticised).

If we discover that those corollaries are unpleasant, ones which our interlocutor would not want to accept (the absurdum), then we find also that the premise is not one that they can accept, and so neither was their original conclusion (the reductio).

The interlocutor may wish to maintain their premise and conclusion, but now they have to find some way to exclude the alternative conclusions of the premise without excluding the conclusion they desire.

I thought this was a philosophy forum?
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:52 am

-Psychonaut wrote:
I do not see how you get 'fighting' out of that comment Serge?

It is a simple philosophical argument called the Reductio Ad Absurdum (or RAA).
...
If we discover that those corollaries are unpleasant, ones which our interlocutor would not want to accept (the absurdum), then we find also that the premise is not one that they can accept, and so neither was their original conclusion (the reductio).

The interlocutor may wish to maintain their premise and conclusion, but now they have to find some way to exclude the alternative conclusions of the premise without excluding the conclusion they desire.

I thought this was a philosophy forum?
Right. My mistake to see it as two females competing for status.
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kriswest
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:05 am

Laughing Laughing Serge, I don't need status, thats for game players, If I want to get to the top of the hill I tunnel under it and avoid the crowd trying to climb it. Laughing


Psychonaut,
I was an employee long before I was an employer, I still am. It is not my fault that you can't figure out how to negotiate with others. Or that you wish be a victim and not bear responsibility for your own ineptitude in life.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:06 am

Aha, you are met with actual philosophical arguments, and your response?
To try and find another premise that would negate the absurd conclusion?
To try and find a different premise that would justify your conclusion?
To concede that your conclusion was flawed and alter it to a weaker yet more correct statement?

No, instead you thought you would make random assertions about a person of which you know nothing.

Laughing

Thanks for the chuckle.
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kriswest
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:35 am

Very Happy No its not flawed, I have never been screwed as an employee because I have confidence and self esteem. I know my worth. If others do not then that is their problem. If they need help then they ask for it and get it in the form of unions or other ways. Or they can just decide to not do anything. It is their choice how to handle their life.

If you pay people to build your house, do they own your house? Do they have a right to move into it? A business is no different then a house.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:33 pm

Your original line of reasoning:

1. "facts of life" cannot be criticised
2. abusive contracts are a "fact of life"
3. abusive contracts cannot be criticised

I assume you are attacking the notion that the contracts are abusive, but the grounds which you are now using are:

1. They can decide to do another job, or nothing*
2. When someone has alternative choices to a contract it is not abusive
3. The contract is not abusive

However, this same line of reasoning can be applied to the contracts in the Northern Mariana Islands which you earlier seemed to agree were abusive.

So, either abandon criticism of the Northern Mariana Islands, or find new grounds for your definition of 'abusive contracts' which allow you to criticise one and not the other.

* When there are 60 million people in a country and 58 million jobs then 2 million people have to be unemployed, so if any job is offered the actual choice is nothing.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:55 pm

I never said that the folks on the Islands did not have a choice. They chose to allow the abuse. the adults chose to allow the abuse. Kids have no choice. So We work to help the kids learn about their choices and voices. The adults made their choices.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:27 pm

kris! You drove her to nervous break-down. I just got a PM from her on another site, she's quit ephilosophy. You mustn't fine them so badly that they just say 'fuck money.'
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:27 am

And I thought I was being polite and reserved. Sheez,,,, Are folks really so sensitive now that there is no responsibility taken?????? Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:27 am

You mean me?
I have a penis.

Anyway, I haven't quit 'ephilosophy', I have quit a particular other forum while I work on my book. I am spending too much time writing without it being productive.

I am intending to finish here once a couple of things are wrapped up.

So, to clarify kris, you think that the only abusive element of the Northern Mariana islands is the involvement of children in prostitution?

So, the contracual obligation to abort if pregnant is a-okay?
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:37 am

-Psychonaut wrote:
You mean me?
I have a penis.
Really? It's not impossible.

Quote :
Anyway, I haven't quit 'ephilosophy', I have quit a particular other forum while I work on my book. I am spending too much time writing without it being productive.

I am intending to finish here once a couple of things are wrapped up.
Sheep dogs needed. Don't abandon the herd!
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:16 pm

if that is he law there and the folks do not fight to change it then it is OK with them then it is OK with me.

I think any abuse to children is horrific and subhuman. Any abuse to adults then the adults are choosing to accept it. they have voices, they have the numbers, they out number those in charge, they can fight or not. Kids can't fight for themselves. the adults choose to accept their treatment even though they far outnumber the ruling class. they allow the treatment to be carried over to their kids.. which is disgusting. So should I have pity for adults that allow such treatment to go on with kids?
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:54 pm

The only way to tell whether somebody actually has a penis or not, nowadays, is to see it for yourself.

And some people LOVE to pretend they have one.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:40 am

Is that a confession???? Razz Wink Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:33 am

kriswest wrote:
Is that a confession???? Razz Wink Laughing
It's an accusation.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:05 pm

I dunno,,,,,,,, it was rather ambiguous, it could be a confession Laughing Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:02 pm

kriswest wrote:
I dunno,,,,,,,, it was rather ambiguous, it could be a confession Laughing Laughing
You wish Kristy...

And others wish it too, I think...

It's hard to tell who has a penis anymore, when guys act like pussies. That was my point. Cool
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:30 am

So men have to behave like predatorial animals in order to be men?
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