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The Fool
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PostSubject: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:33 pm

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BILLINGS, Mont.— A school bus driver made an unscheduled stop at a liquor store, then allegedly asked a student to help hide her purchases when police stopped her, the district superintendent said.

It does not appear the driver had been drinking, Billings Public Schools Superintendent Jack Copps said. No charges had been filed but the driver quit her job this week.

Copps said someone spotted the bus at the liquor store on Dec. 12 and called authorities. No students were on the bus at the time, he said.

By the time officers caught up with the bus, the driver had picked up some middle school students and allegedly asked one student to hide a paper bag with bottles of alcohol near the back of the bus, Copps said.

Copps said the school immediately notified its bus contractor, First Student, that the woman was not to transport any of the district's students.

School district policy prohibits alcohol on school property or in vehicles transporting students. Copps described the incident as "embarrassing."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/bizarre/6200834.html




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kriswest
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:45 am

That takes a severe lack of brain usage to do something so stupid,,, I nominate her for one of the years most dumbest criminals.

Geee,, no one will notice this big yellow bus it blends right in,, Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:54 am

kriswest wrote:
That takes a severe lack of brain usage to do something so stupid,,, I nominate her for one of the years most dumbest criminals.

Geee,, no one will notice this big yellow bus it blends right in,, Rolling Eyes


Laughing Razz
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Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:24 am

This is none of my business. As I see it, the one who called the police, then of course the police, perhaps the school for having rules about it, the media for reporting it, The Fool for posting it, Kris and now me for replying are the ones who are in the wrong.

Confucius said something like ~He who has never heard the dinner bells of the next town is truly wise. I take this to imply nothing about bells or dinners; simply do not get involved in the affairs of others unless it involves my will exactly; and even then I may choose to lose or to die; this topic does admittedly involve us, as other control-freaks are out there waiting to call the police on you and I. This is the line I'm trying to develop, I believe it ends in death, but maybe not, the Buddha hung around, I'm thinking, to help those who make a clear and unambiguous cry for help. With say, lobsters, this is not possible obviously, so in those cases I need to make the best guess I can.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:23 am

Ivan,, are you a parent or an uncle or do you have any kids in your family that have to be bussed to school? Do you pay city taxes or county taxes? What a gov't employee does concerns us all. Especially an employee that has the job of caring for our children. Go do a search on how many school buses have had severe deadly accidents over the past year.

The woman was dumb and a criminal. She may not have intended to drink that liquor while driving kids but, the fact that she tried to hide the bottles said clearly that she knew she did wrong. A bus driver must be careful , semiintelligent and not put kids at risk. She failed.

I certainly do not want her driving kids if she can't wait to buy liquor on her own time.
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Ivan
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:15 am

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Do you pay city taxes or county taxes?
No.

Non-interventionism: I advise you to just walk away. If we can't have our Utah; then it is war.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:48 am

Well, see I pay taxes, bus drivers are taxpayer employees. What they do concerns all that care for kids and those that pay their salary.

You can keep Utah,, been there. Beautiful state, it really is, but its not quite as pretty as Arizona. Razz Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:49 am

By purchasing and owning liquor she put no one in danger, you may as well say 'She was wearing a hat, do you know how many school buses have had accidents this year?'

I have little doubt that she was dumb, she is human.

As for criminal, I hadn't realised that morality correlated perfectly with the law. What kind of philosopher derives their truths from an authority? The answer is no kind of philosopher.

The fact that you pay someone's wages does not mean that you have a limitless say on what they do, you can only reasonably have a say on those things that directly effect their work performance. I pay taxes too, but not to the USA. If the police wasted their time and effort on something so stupid as this instead of dealing with violent criminals then I would be offended that my money was being spent that way.

The fact that she tried to hide the bottles demonstrates only that she feared reprisals for her actions, not that she 'knew she did wrong'. I am actually amazed that there is someone who can sincerely say something so jaw droppingly stupid; you are actually just playing devil's advocate as a pisstake, right?

Gah, I can't believe I am even responding to such blatant trolling.
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kriswest
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:33 am

Oh cool!!!!! I have just joined the ranks of all you trolls!!!! I feel so honored!!! Should I give a speech or something?????? Laughing

If she feared reprisals then she knew she did something that was not aproved of. I do know that the employee manuals of most school districts forbid things like that , no bars, no liquor stores etc, during work hours. Its rather obvious that she would not drink while driving unless she was a complete and utter moron. But, she had booze on a school bus, school property and she is supposed to be responsible. A responsible adult would not in anyway jeopordize their jobs or even kids.. Lets say some brilliant little shit snuck the bottles away from the driver,,, what then????

Raise you hand folks if you ever had the intelligence to sneak things away from a distracted adult and cause mayhem and hell.. I am willing to bet most of us were brats at certain points in our lives. I know I was and still can be to a point.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:06 am

kriswest wrote:
Oh cool!!!!! I have just joined the ranks of all you trolls!!!! I feel so honored!!! Should I give a speech or something?????? Laughing

If she feared reprisals then she knew she did something that was not aproved of.
...
A responsible adult would not in anyway jeopordize their jobs or even kids.. Lets say some brilliant little shit snuck the bottles away from the driver,,, what then????
Knowing that society doesn't approve doesn't make something wrong.

A responsible adult is a slave. Jobs are for slaves. Kids are slaves.

kris, what are you up to? You love a train wreck? You are here because you are a dissident, that is clear, but what sort of dissident are you? This I still can't see.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:27 am

If I pay someone to do a job, I expect that person to do their job. My taxes pay Gov't employees, I expect them to do their jobs right. Society is that woman's employer. If she was a private school bus driver I would not give a rats butt. That would be between her and her employers.

A problem in society is that no one realizes they are the employer. The Gov't is their servant. Gov't. employees need to be held up to a high standard IMO, since I and many others pay their salary. They wanted the jobs, they were not drafted into them.

I dissent against following blindly. I dissent against accepting that our Gov't rules us. We rule them.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:47 pm

Bla bla bla the law is good and can't be questioned bla bla bla.

Kris realises that society is essentially abusive, but wants the myths he has become disabused of to become realities "Make santa real!"
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:15 am

Laughing No, I just expect people to do their the job that they agreed to do and agreed how to do it. If you hired someone and they did not fulfill their contract,, would you pay them?
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:48 am

kriswest wrote:
Laughing No, I just expect people to do their the job that they agreed to do and agreed how to do it. If you hired someone and they did not fulfill their contract,, would you pay them?
Agreeing to fixed prices before-hand is a slavish habit. You can't control or predict the other kris.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:56 am

A contract is not slavish it protects both parties.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:11 am

You and your fear. Can't you trust anyone.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:51 am

I do not see that its fear Ivan, it is just business. Both parties must keep their end of any agreement. Should one fail the other has should have a right to make up for any loss.

Any agreement wether writen or oral is a contract. Trust is not an issue in this. It is simple quality control of contracts. A person must be responsible for any promise they make.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:21 pm

I would not formulate a contract that pertained to anything other than the fulfilment of the actual requirements of the work, e.g. say I wanted someone to transport my children to school, the contract would detail the time they would be expected to take my children off me, the time they would be expected to arrive at school, and that they not put my children in extraordinary danger.

To put details into a contract that do not pertain to the fulfilment of the actual requirements of the employer is abusive (though admittedly, perfectly legal). As an Anarchist I do not criticise the Law simply for its proscribing rightful or neutral actions, but also for its permissiveness regarding wrongful action; or specifically is proscribing against reactions to wrongful action. The kind of mentality that says "This is legal, therefore its ok" is one of the major problems of our age.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:19 pm

kriswest wrote:
I do not see that its fear Ivan, it is just business. Both parties must keep their end of any agreement.

Trust is not an issue in this. ... A person must be responsible for any promise they make.
"Fear" is the currency of "business".

An "agreement" is the phobic objectification of the dread of uncertainty.

"Trust" is not an issue because it is impossible, yet it is a necessary risk.

A "person" can never be "responsible" for a "promise" they make.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:31 am

-Psychonaut, thats great that is fine for you and your kids. It is an honest contract/agreement easily fullfilled.

Ivan;
Quote :
"Fear" is the currency of "business".

In some cases yes, if you are dealing with someone you do not know or barely know.

Quote :
An "agreement" is the phobic objectification of the dread of uncertainty.

You pulled that one out of somewhere didn't you ? Very Happy That is a bit emotionally strong for something so simple. I would cautious, due to a need for survival and growth.

"Trust" is not an issue because it is impossible, yet it is a necessary risk.
A contract is trust.

Quote :
A "person" can never be "responsible" for a "promise" they make.

Well,, I guess I won't ever trust you then. Seems to me that, that is a totally untrustworthy attitude. "Gee sorry I am not responsible I don't have to keep my word or promises. You lose" I don't imagine folks would have a whole lot of trust or faith in you, your word is not good, which means you have no honor , no trust, no faith.

So why do you want me to believe like you do,, why would you want me to screw folks over? I bear resonsibility if I fail to keep a promise or my word, even if there are unusual circumstances. The other person must not be put in a bad place because of my failure. There are certain circumstance where that is not possible but, in general it is possible to redress failure. Not being resonsible for promises is a copout, it is weakness, egotistical and lowlife.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:35 am

kriswest wrote:
Ivan;
Quote :
"Fear" is the currency of "business".

In some cases yes, if you are dealing with someone you do not know or barely know.
Who do you know?

Quote :
Quote :
An "agreement" is the phobic objectification of the dread of uncertainty.

You pulled that one out of somewhere didn't you ? Very Happy That is a bit emotionally strong for something so simple. I would cautious, due to a need for survival and growth.
Hit something there? First a shot at humor and deligitimization. Then trivialize it. Then pragmatize it.

Quote :
Well,, I guess I won't ever trust you then.

Don't. I don't want to be your master. I want you to be free kris!

Quote :
Seems to me that, that is a totally untrustworthy attitude. "Gee sorry I am not responsible I don't have to keep my word or promises. You lose" I don't imagine folks would have a whole lot of trust or faith in you, your word is not good, which means you have no honor , no trust, no faith.
It's honest. Trust comes from truth.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:28 am

Freedom means having nothing to lose. Freedom is being dead. You have nothing left to lose when you are dead, then you are free by our standards. Trust and truth might go hand in hand to a point. You can trust a liar to lie, you can trust that a lazy person will not help or work, you can trust that you might have another breath. Truth does not give trust though.

Trust is not master slave, it is peer. What is it about commitment that bothers you so much? master slave attitude is just a shield, what lies underneath?
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:21 pm

And yet, it is not fine only for my kids.

You see, like you I am a stakeholder. Why is it that the most vitriolic and panic-ridden stakeholders tend to think that their opinion is universal, let alone a majority, let alone vaguely representative?

Our stake is claimed not only in the welfare of our children, but in the welfare of our society.

We have not just the need for children to make their way to schools, but also for employment to be provided in a non-abusive manner.

Why can women wear flowery blouses, but I can't wear my hawaiian shirt?
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:00 pm

Why can't you wear your Hawaiin shirt they are manly. I see nothing wrong with that print.

I agree with you about it all. I would add that our children are society.

I only meant that agreements are mutual, what you agree with your driver and what your driver agrees with you is fine. As long as both agree to terms and both live up to the agreed terms.
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PostSubject: Re: School bus driver makes stop at liquor store   Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:44 pm

kriswest wrote:
Freedom means having nothing to lose. Freedom is being dead.
I'm hoping that that is only the master reading of the word "freedom".
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