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The Fool
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PostSubject: Humanity's purpose.   Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:13 am

What is the purpose of individual human beings and what seperates them from other species?

Nothing. ( Yes, nothing.)

The purpose of human beings and humanity itself is death along with extinction. ( Extinction of the self and over a large amount of time the entire extinction of the human species altogether by external cosmic forces.)

The purpose of man like any other animal is to live temporarily only to die later on in entropy by that of biological processes.

In life there is just temporary activities, idleness, self indulgence, and masturbation of the mind ( And body.) but in the end all of that is dominated by death as all of those things cede over to entropy or eternal degeneration.

What about enlightenment?

What about the divine?

What about directional progress?

What about salvation?


What about them? You live and die that's it. Were not required to do anything in life beyond living and dying.
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's purpose.   Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:07 pm

Yes Fool, but what about Society? What is the group's non-individual purpose?
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's purpose.   Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:21 pm

The Fool wrote:
( Extinction of the self and over a large amount of time the entire extinction of the human species altogether by external cosmic forces.)
There is no such thing as external cosmic forces.

There was a time when no life existed, no outer / inner, no internal / external, no human / environment.

Our distance from the world is an illusion created by time; gravity, electromagnetism and the nuclear force are part of us and share our fate.

They will be destroyed.
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's purpose.   Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:05 am

Unreasonable wrote:
Yes Fool, but what about Society? What is the group's non-individual purpose?

Elaborate.

Quote :
There is no such thing as external cosmic forces.

There was a time when no life existed, no outer / inner, no internal / external, no human / environment.

Our distance from the world is an illusion created by time; gravity, electromagnetism and the nuclear force are part of us and share our fate.

They will be destroyed.

Probally so but the illusion of it all nonetheless dominates our sciences in order to hold this conversation.
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's purpose.   Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:22 am

The Fool wrote:
What is the purpose of individual human beings and what seperates them from other species?

Nothing. ( Yes, nothing.)

The purpose of human beings and humanity itself is death along with extinction. ( Extinction of the self and over a large amount of time the entire extinction of the human species altogether by external cosmic forces.)

The purpose of man like any other animal is to live temporarily only to die later on in entropy by that of biological processes.

In life there is just temporary activities, idleness, self indulgence, and masturbation of the mind ( And body.) but in the end all of that is dominated by death as all of those things cede over to entropy or eternal degeneration.

What about enlightenment?

What about the divine?

What about directional progress?

What about salvation?


What about them? You live and die that's it. Were not required to do anything in life beyond living and dying.
You are of course correct. However as you make this seem rather negative there is of course a more positive way of viewing this seemingly pointless situation that we are in.
The universe is over 13 billion years old at last count. There are estimated to be billions of galaxies and even more stars in the observable universe. Yet in all that we have seen, there is nothing quite so incredible as life. We are a part of that, that's fairly impressive, quite a honour in my eyes. There is no purpose in the eyes of the universe, but is that not because the universe does not have eyes? That's not quite correct. We are a part of the universe are we not? and we have eyes, we are able to perceive things, we are able to create purpose. Of all the known races on the earth, we are the only known species to ask the question "what's the point?" In the eyes of the universe that is our purpose, to view purpose, and more importantly to give purpose, dependant on what we deem as important and what is not. We will not be here forever, but for the limited time we are, the spectacle that is the universe does not go unobserved.
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's purpose.   Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:25 am

The purpose? there can be no known purpose. No absolute answer could possibly be before us. We live , we die , the universe chugs along without a blink. Each individual creates their own purpose.
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's purpose.   Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:01 am

kriswest wrote:
The purpose? there can be no known purpose. No absolute answer could possibly be before us. We live , we die , the universe chugs along without a blink. Each individual creates their own purpose.

Finally we agree on somthing. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's purpose.   Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:36 am

Took long enough Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's purpose.   Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:13 am

Quote :
However as you make this seem rather negative there is of course a more positive way of viewing this seemingly pointless situation that we are in.
The universe is over 13 billion years old at last count. There are estimated to be billions of galaxies and even more stars in the observable universe. Yet in all that we have seen, there is nothing quite so incredible as life. We are a part of that, that's fairly impressive, quite a honour in my eyes.

Quite random and redundant in my eyes. Life is incredible only if you are apart of the living of course living is suffering and tragedy too.

Incredible is then left off to subjectivity.


Quote :
There is no purpose in the eyes of the universe, but is that not because the universe does not have eyes? That's not quite correct. We are a part of the universe are we not? and we have eyes, we are able to perceive things, we are able to create purpose.


Sure we can create purpose but of course everything we create is merely a temporary manifestation as everything we create lacks permanence.

Quote :

Of all the known races on the earth, we are the only known species to ask the question "what's the point?"

Yes but is that a gift or a curse? To me such an ability is anything but a gift and more of a curse.

It creates more problems and suffering than what it is worth.

Quote :
In the eyes of the universe that is our purpose, to view purpose, and more importantly to give purpose,

I don't think so. There is nothing in the universe or cosmos saying that we must define or do anything.


Quote :
We will not be here forever, but for the limited time we are, the spectacle that is the universe does not go unobserved.

The future of humanity has always been it's own extinguishment and extinction.

It has taken us many centuries to realize that. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's purpose.   Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:32 pm

The Fool wrote:

Life is incredible only if you are apart of the living of course living is suffering and tragedy too.

Incredible is then left off to subjectivity.

Nothing other than life has an opinion, your point is invalid.

Quote :


Sure we can create purpose but of course everything we create is merely a temporary manifestation as everything we create lacks permanence.

Your point being?

Quote :



Yes but is that a gift or a curse? To me such an ability is anything but a gift and more of a curse.

It creates more problems and suffering than what it is worth.

That is your opinion, which you have already made quite clear, I’m just suggesting an alternative and no less valid one

Quote :


I don't think so. There is nothing in the universe or cosmos saying that we must define or do anything.
Only us humans right? but then as we are in the universe you are of course wrong


Quote :


The future of humanity has always been it's own extinguishment and extinction.

It has taken us many centuries to realize that. Laughing

that has nothing to do with what I said
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's purpose.   Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:35 pm

The Fool wrote:
What is the purpose of individual human beings
To realize the Self

Quote :
and what seperates them from other species?
The sharing ethic that continues past mother-care .


Quote :
The purpose of human beings and humanity itself is death along with extinction. ( Extinction of the self and over a large amount of time the entire extinction of the human species altogether by external cosmic forces.)

Our purpose is to provide Nature with a self-reflective consciousness - a separate observer able to witness creation and lavish praise on it.

Quote :
The purpose of man like any other animal is to live temporarily only to die later on in entropy by that of biological processes.


The cycle of conscious evolution is on-going. It began with the first cell division and has reached its highest expression in humankind. The body is conscious energy. The end cycle of the collective consciousness of our specie is transcendental. One we achieve our highest state of consciousness we will realize that we are pure Divine Energy and thereby find reunification.

Quote :
In life there is just temporary activities, idleness, self indulgence, and masturbation of the mind ( And body.) but in the end all of that is dominated by death as all of those things cede over to entropy or eternal degeneration.

In life there is a profound impulse to realize the Self. Supreme effort is required by every individual. Evolutionary imperatives is driving the larger wheel.

Quote :
What about enlightenment?


It requires sincere effort

Quote :
What about the divine?


We are aspects of Divine energy. Everything is.

Quote :
What about directional progress?


We have come from the naivete of the Stone Age, through the Bronze, Iron and Steel Ages. We are entering the Nuclear Age. We are on our way to a Cosmic Age.

Quote :
What about salvation?


Ultimately the buck stops with the highest Consciousness. In the meantime it is every man for himself, with the proviso that we try and help each other.

Quote :
What about them? You live and die that's it. Were not required to do anything in life beyond living and dying.

We have the freewill to see life that way, or not. sunny
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's purpose.   Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:10 pm

The Fool wrote:
What is the purpose of individual human beings and what seperates them from other species?


The purpose of a human being is to reach equilibrium. What separates us from other species is abundance.

That human equilibrium is attained by satisfying the hierarchy of needs as Maslow illustrated. Because man has been able to create an abundance of food, man has been able to seek other needs.
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's purpose.   Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:29 pm

Quote :

The purpose of human beings and humanity itself is death along with extinction. ( Extinction of the self and over a large amount of time the entire extinction of the human species altogether by external cosmic forces.)

As far as the physical, "biological" purpose, i agree with this.

Quote :
In life there is just temporary activities, idleness, self indulgence, and masturbation of the mind ( And body.)

I believe this to be a direct tragety of our debased society, not nessesarily of life as a "whole", given past eras we had much more meaning and appreciation for life and ourselves.


Quote :
What about enlightenment?

detiorated, but still present.

Quote :
What about the divine?

relative.

Quote :
What about directional progress?

Depends on the context, if you mean the enhancement or improvement of culture than its progress has been dead for a long time, or if you mean "time" in general, than its interminable in its progress.

Quote :
What about salvation?

Religious or personal belief.


Quote :
Were not required to do anything in life beyond living and dying.

I disagree, otherwise we would live like wild animals, hunting and killing mindlessly, feeding off basic instincts rather than intelligence, knowing only self preservation instead of emotion and intellectuallity, this is what seperates us from mere animals. The superficial and "natural" destiny would be to simply live and die, sure thats obvious, life and death encapsulate human life, but the gift of thought comes into a wider range of speculation and interpretation. After all, having the ability to observe and explore that we are here to "live and die" would be a truism that human life is a bit more than life and death. And if you should believe that life is merely NOTHING more than dying, than you would have already killed yourself.
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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's purpose.   Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:17 am

system-hater wrote:


I disagree, otherwise we would live like wild animals, hunting and killing mindlessly, feeding off basic instincts rather than intelligence, knowing only self preservation instead of emotion and intellectuallity, this is what seperates us from mere animals. The superficial and "natural" destiny would be to simply live and die, sure thats obvious, life and death encapsulate human life, but the gift of thought comes into a wider range of speculation and interpretation. After all, having the ability to observe and explore that we are here to "live and die" would be a truism that human life is a bit more than life and death. And if you should believe that life is merely NOTHING more than dying, than you would have already killed yourself.

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PostSubject: Re: Humanity's purpose.   Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:00 am

Purpose??? Since the Enlightenment there has been this odd specification of purpose on a grand scale - itself geneologicall derivative of Christian teleology.

If we regard 'purpose' less in terms of cumulative engagement to some higher ideal, as self actualisation, and instead regard it as mitigation via dispersal [as is the case in Islam, Buddhims and Hinduism] - we will realise that what specified sense of purpose we currently bear is merely an integration of social values at a specific point, imbued onto and through a single body [the individual as it's called], this has been indicated by both Fool and Unreasonable [also has been indicated on a grander scale the Physical/cosmic formation].

In turn, any nihilist notions of 'purpose' or antipurpose, are little more than a Hegelian antithesis transposed onto modern science as the opposition against Christian teleology [&c]. With this, we must nullify a pessimistic 'anitpurpose' and think simply in terms of disposition and dispersal of 'energies', or 'values', themselves components of Being - without an overly specific or teleological purpose beyond their nexus/mode of being - which will dissipate in a grander scheme of existence, which Hindu's, regarded as Atman/Brahman - ever indifferent, yet so serene. [the astute reader will Nota Bene and consider the several perspectives here in terms of geneology and discourse, such as ancient thinking, modern mathematics, discourse analysis [e.g. French School on 'the body']]
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